[3.10] Gryph's Volatile Dead Necromancer || Fun, Medium Budget, Tanky, Millions of DPS

Hey,

i am dying a lot, specialy vs map boss or metamorph boss, but across map i feel that my dmg are goods.

What can i improve or change...to survive!

Thx!

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Rootsmann написал:

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Benschi написал:

the only thing i dont like that i burn through my mana so quick.

i gone behind another guide before where i could perma cyclone without getting out of mana.

can someone check my profile and maybe tell me why?

thanks.

You profile is privitate we can't see it.

You burn your mana because cyclone cost 50+ mana due to Doedre's gloves. That is why "% of damage gained as mana over 4 seconds" mods (from jewellery or watcher's eye clarity mod) are necessary.

Other topic, for Gryph:
From the main page:

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xHavoCx wrote:
Here is a calculator that helps you figure out your ideal attack per second range based on your mana cost and physical damage mitigation.

Put this together because I got tired of doing the calculations by hand for every little adjustment... add a few hundred armor and it can blow up your carefully balanced machine.

For min-maxers mostly. Enjoy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cmmxBbwYPm4RXDyUJAm4r4a5WVn9dKQQ63_BMQgnpYw/edit?usp=sharing

So, to me, this google doc calculation is completly off.

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The max aps goal correspond to the sweet spot for the maximum number of CWDT triggers per amount of damage taken while cycloning. Cool, having more or less than this sweet spot is bad. But having less is not as bad as having more. Anyway none of us will ever reach this sweet spot, it's far too high.

The minimum aps goal has no use at all, though. It's just the aps necessary to synchronize your CwC procs with your CWDT procs IF there was no cooldown of CWDT. In other words, it synchronize our number of attacks necessary to trigger a CWDT with your CwC proc as if the CWDT were off cooldown. That has no use whatsoever. It's probably a notion taken from the needs of synchronisation for CoC procs, but CwC does not have such necessities, as I'll comment on the conclusion of this post.

The actual minimum aps goal that matters is the one that allows your VD and Offering to always be cast on cooldown. For that you must take into account the number of corpse you generate (Unearth on top of Desecrate?), and the number of corpses you consume (How many offerings, cascade on VD?), on top of the parameters already taken into account in the doc (cyclone mana cost, CWDT damage treshold, phys mitigation, CDR, etc..).

For example, I run the number for my setup:

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Corpse generation: Desecrate + cascade = 10 corpse limit per CWDT trigger
Corpse Consumption: 1 Offering, 3 corpse per CwC from VD.
Cyclone mana cost = 56
CwC cooldown = 0.34
CwdT damage treshold = 528.
Mitigation : 3 endurance charge, 0 armor.

For 1 CWDT trigger I have 10 corpses, minus one that is eaten by the offering. I am left with 9 corpses per CWDT cycles.
A CWDT cycle duration is (250+x) milliseconds, where x is the time needed to accumulate 528 phys damages after mitigation.

These 9 corpses can be used for 3 VD cast so 3 CwC procs.

Putting my stats in equations gives me 3.89 attacks per second as the sweet spot.

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The equation is : (Attacks to trigger CWDT)/((3 CwC cycles*0.34 s)-0.25 s).
The google doc gives 8.8 aps as the minimum goal with my parameters. I recall that this minimum from the doc is meaningless, but may push people to go for crazy aps for nothing

With my stats, having less than 3.89 aps will imply that the VD cast of the 4th CWC proc has no corpse to use, and the next offering will have nothing to consume. So it's both damage and recovery that suffer. Having more aps will just generate more corpses. Indeed, since CwC will proc according to it's own internal cooldown, being above the minimum aps treshold and therefore being out of of sync between CwC and CWDT won't matter. It's a different case compared to CoC where the procs are set by your attacks. Here the VD just triggers on CWC cooldown while the corpse generation cycle is faster than necessary.

Slight issue with your CWDT calculations: you're not consuming 1 corpse per offering, you're consuming up to 5 (this is also why you'll sometimes see your max ES changing while cycloning, if you only consume 4 corpses you'll get less ES, etc). This is also why you'll want spirit offering very early on in your cwdt setups, so it has "dibs" on 5 corpses. Not as important for flesh offering and bone offering because they only increase duration with more corpses.

I do agree that the spreadsheet is wrong in it's assumption that you'll instantly trigger your cwdt setups, and that you it needs to account for the 250 ms cooldown.

I also think that's there 2 factors to consider for how much aps is ideal:
1) your corpse generation and consumption per second, basically "corpses generated - corpses consumed"
2) spirit offering sustain: the difference between the amount of damage you're self inflicting every second, and the amount of ES you're recovering from spirit offering every second.

From some very rough math, that I'm not entirely sure is correct, I've come to the following conclusions:
1) At 17% DR (endurance+gruthkul, procs lvl 1 cwdt every 3 hits and lvl 20 cwdt every 19 hits at 54 mana cost cyclone), the ideal aps seems to be anything above 9 for only spirit offering and volatile dead, at 350ms cwc cd. Adding in bone offering and flesh offering makes things a bit more difficult: they're on a 20 cwdt setup, and from what I can tell you'll run in to issues with sustaining enough corpses. And I haven't really figured out how to tell how many volatile deads you'll lose. However, it would seem that the added aps from flesh offering is not enough to offset its corpse consumption. Bone offering is more debatable: you'll likely lose out on some dps, maybe even some ES every once in a while, but you'll get a lot of block in return. If you want to be able sustain spirit offering (cwdt lvl 1) and bone offering (cwdt lvl 20), you're looking at over 20 aps. And that's all assuming a 350ms cwc cd, the numbers get higher if you use an awakened cwc. In conclusion: if you can live without bone offering's block, you're better off with a rare belt.
This is all assuming I didn't make some mistake in my calculations, which is entirely possible.

2) at 17% DR (endurance charges+gruthkul), my ideal spirit offering sustain seems to be around 5 aps. Anything higher makes me unable to sustain my incoming damage, anything lower doesn't get you as many spirit offerings per sec. However, this value is heavily influenced by how much ES you're getting per spirit offering. If I double my ES gain, I'm suddenly looking at 12 aps as ideal.



And on an unrelated note: I'm using a 20/20 steelskin in my 20 cwdt setup, really helps smooth out the damage intake, and the damage against steelskin's shield is still counted for your cwdt. Might be nice for people struggling to keep their ES up.



EDIT: those calculations are also not considering corpses from monsters in maps.

EDIT 2: I've also been considering using corrupted soul, but the amount of life recovery you would need seems rather steep.

Any tips on how to craft such a staff? Btw i`ve respec my zombie necro into this ... thing, it obliterates everything without being a summoner build. My PC hates me :(

Guys, is there any way to mitigate the one-shots? Metamorph boss, Atziri, etc.

I'm using Spectres with this:

Also have a Chaos Golem with 4% Phys damage reduction.
I'm using Soul of Gruthkul and Soul of Lunaris as Pantheons, both are fully upgraded.

All resistances are at max... In fights I have around 3.6k health and 3.7k ES.

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vikdean написал:

Guys, is there any way to mitigate the one-shots? Metamorph boss, Atziri, etc.

I'm using Spectres with this:

Also have a Chaos Golem with 4% Phys damage reduction.
I'm using Soul of Gruthkul and Soul of Lunaris as Pantheons, both are fully upgraded.

All resistances are at max... In fights I have around 3.6k health and 3.7k ES.

Best way is to keep circling around your enemy instead of staying right on top of them. That way a lot of attacks will simply miss.

Your HP and ES could be higher (mine are about 10k combined), and you might potentially have low chaos res.

In this league you can never completely get rid of oneshots, but from level 90 to 94 I died maybe 6 times, 3 of them to sirus because I didn't know the fight very well yet, and a 4th death out of pure stupidity.
Unless you run elemental reflect I guess, but that would be your own fault.

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5argan написал:

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vikdean написал:

Guys, is there any way to mitigate the one-shots? Metamorph boss, Atziri, etc.

I'm using Spectres with this:

Also have a Chaos Golem with 4% Phys damage reduction.
I'm using Soul of Gruthkul and Soul of Lunaris as Pantheons, both are fully upgraded.

All resistances are at max... In fights I have around 3.6k health and 3.7k ES.

Best way is to keep circling around your enemy instead of staying right on top of them. That way a lot of attacks will simply miss.

Your HP and ES could be higher (mine are about 10k combined), and you might potentially have low chaos res.

In this league you can never completely get rid of oneshots, but from level 90 to 94 I died maybe 6 times, 3 of them to sirus because I didn't know the fight very well yet, and a 4th death out of pure stupidity.
Unless you run elemental reflect I guess, but that would be your own fault.

My chaos res is around +20%. The one-shots I'm talking about the ones you cant evade... I've just did an Atziri run, killed everything easily. But soon as I've arrived at Atziri, she just one-shoted me every time I've stepped into the room; and I'm not talking about some attack you can see coming, no... it was instant. And keep in mind, I had the +3000 Armor, + Chaos Res flask active...
I guess this is the definition of the "glass canon".

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vikdean написал:

My chaos res is around +20%. The one-shots I'm talking about the ones you cant evade... I've just did an Atziri run, killed everything easily. But soon as I've arrived at Atziri, she just one-shoted me every time I've stepped into the room; and I'm not talking about some attack you can see coming, no... it was instant. And keep in mind, I had the +3000 Armor, + Chaos Res flask active...
I guess this is the definition of the "glass canon".

Atziri Reflects Damage. Straight from the Wiki:

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Passive Effect: Damage Reflection

2% of Physical Damage taken reflected to Attacker
2% of Elemental Damage taken reflected to Attacker

Note: "Attacker" does not imply that only damage from attacks gets reflected − spells are also included.

This build cannot run Atziri unless you implement a means of reflect immunity. Build is definitely not glass cannon :D

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Gryphenprey написал:

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vikdean написал:

My chaos res is around +20%. The one-shots I'm talking about the ones you cant evade... I've just did an Atziri run, killed everything easily. But soon as I've arrived at Atziri, she just one-shoted me every time I've stepped into the room; and I'm not talking about some attack you can see coming, no... it was instant. And keep in mind, I had the +3000 Armor, + Chaos Res flask active...
I guess this is the definition of the "glass canon".

Atziri Reflects Damage. Straight from the Wiki:

"

Passive Effect: Damage Reflection

2% of Physical Damage taken reflected to Attacker
2% of Elemental Damage taken reflected to Attacker

Note: "Attacker" does not imply that only damage from attacks gets reflected − spells are also included.

This build cannot run Atziri unless you implement a means of reflect immunity. Build is definitely not glass cannon :D

Yeah, I know that... but I'm not talking about reflected damage.
I didn't actually had a chance to attack. I was dead before I could spin once...
I've even removed my curse gem, because I know she reflects that too, but it wasn't that.

Eventually I've managed to defeat her tho, took 5 tries (4 one shots).

Big thanks for this build Gryp!
It has completely spoiled me for several leagues now. I like to try new things and have rolled several alts, but nothing matches the sheer unbridled joy of zooming through a map spawning utter chaos all around you :D

Have you thought about or tried using CI with this build? It does not seem to interfere with the build apart from ES increase of spirit offering and it's only 2 passive points away.