question about elemental army support gem

so this gem states "minions from supported skills inflict Exposure on hit, applying -10% to the elemental resistance matching highest damage type taken by enemy"


just want to know if this means only from the damage from my golems on my elementalist, or also from my damage from my arc skill?


in other words, if my golems are attacking a target, and I am attacking the same target with my arc spell, will the target with exposure applied to them have -10% resistance to lightning since my arc is obviously doing more damage than any of my golems?


and does this -10% stack with my lightning penetration from gear/lightning penetration gem/passive tree?

if I have for example 50% lightning penetration and my golems apply exposure to a target and I do damage to that target with Arc, will it be effectively 60% lightning penetration?


thanks for any help on this! wondering if I should use elemental army to boost DPS or just go with minion life support gem or something else in this slot.

Elemental Army's "hits that applies Exposure" are referred to the supported minion's hits. When hitting, the minion's elemental damage are compared, and an Exposure of -10% of the highest element (or elements in case of tie) will be applied to the opponent.

In your case, hits from your lightning golem will most probably apply a lightning exposure (unless, for example, you support it with added cold damage, which could possibly apply a cold exposure if cold damage gets to be higher than lightning damage from that golem).

Your skill's damage do not interfere in any way with the Exposure inflicted by a minion supported by Elemental Army

(on a side-related note: not inflicting an elemental damage will not proc an Exposure. Supporting your Stone Golem with Elemental Army and Brutality will not give a -10% Elemental Exposure "since all elemental damages inflicted are 0". In order to apply exposure, at least 1 damage must be inflicted)

Looks like Maxtrux got here first, but perhaps this will add a little more.

I believe the elemental choice for exposure is based on only the skill that is applying the exposure, in this case your golems, since exposure is an on-hit effect.

You cannot stack multiple counts of the SAME exposure, so several lightning exposures do not stack with each other. But if you happen to have several golems linked to Elemental Army, I think the mobs could end up with multiple different exposures, depending on who they were hit by.

Since the Lightning Golem has an aoe-like zap, as well as an aura buff that benefits the player, it seems like using one in your mix could make sense. As always, play with PoB to see what the damage boost is and then decide if you want to go for defense instead.

On stacking with ele pen, yes. One instance of any particular exposure will stack with all other sources of penetration and resistance reduction.

Cheers

"

Maxtrux написал:

Elemental Army's "hits that applies Exposure" are referred to the supported minion's hits. When hitting, the minion's elemental damage are compared, and an Exposure of -10% of the highest element (or elements in case of tie) will be applied to the opponent.

In your case, hits from your lightning golem will most probably apply a lightning exposure (unless, for example, you support it with added cold damage, which could possibly apply a cold exposure if cold damage gets to be higher than lightning damage from that golem).

Your skill's damage do not interfere in any way with the Exposure inflicted by a minion supported by Elemental Army

(on a side-related note: not inflicting an elemental damage will not proc an Exposure. Supporting your Stone Golem with Elemental Army and Brutality will not give a -10% Elemental Exposure "since all elemental damages inflicted are 0". In order to apply exposure, at least 1 damage must be inflicted)

so basically, unless I misunderstand, you are saying the exposure applied to a target only depends on the elemental damage that comes from a golem/minion? if a flame golem hits a target with fire, it will have -10% to fire resistance, and only fire resistance gets this debuff and for example my arc spell hitting a target with exposure applied to it will not get the -10% bonus?


because the wording on the gem suggests otherwise :S

if we read the text of the gem, it says "Minions from Supported Skills inflict Exposure on Hit, applying -10% to the Elemental Resistance matching highest Damage type taken by Enemy"

and if we look at elemental army support gem and exposure on the poe wiki, it says:

(Elemental army)

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Army_Support

"Elemental Army Support is a support gem that increases the elemental resistances and elemental damage of minions. Supported minions also apply Exposure of the element respective of the highest damage dealing element."

(Exposure)

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Exposure

"Exposure is a debuff that lowers a particular elemental resistance. Multiple applications of the same exposure do not stack, only the largest value is applied."


Now maybe im wrong of course but to me, it looks like this would suggest that if a golem hits a target it will apply exposure debuff to this target, this target will then have -10% resistance to *any* elemental damage no matter the source, as long as it is the highest damage dealing type of any element, basically as long as a target has the "exposure" debuff, it should have -10% resistance to whatever elemental damage is hitting it as long as it is the highest dealing damage type?


Of course I have tested it in PoB but it seems this gem is not calculated or considered into DPS calculations as the numbers dont change at all when using this gem, if it does work to buff my dps however we can always just add -10% lightning resistance in the config options, but yeah, still not sure what to make of this, does it *only* work with damage coming from minions, or will the exposure debuff also boost my dps as long as my dps is the highest damage dealing type? etc..

"

GreyLensman написал:

Looks like Maxtrux got here first, but perhaps this will add a little more.

I believe the elemental choice for exposure is based on only the skill that is applying the exposure, in this case your golems, since exposure is an on-hit effect.

You cannot stack multiple counts of the SAME exposure, so several lightning exposures do not stack with each other. But if you happen to have several golems linked to Elemental Army, I think the mobs could end up with multiple different exposures, depending on who they were hit by.

Since the Lightning Golem has an aoe-like zap, as well as an aura buff that benefits the player, it seems like using one in your mix could make sense. As always, play with PoB to see what the damage boost is and then decide if you want to go for defense instead.

On stacking with ele pen, yes. One instance of any particular exposure will stack with all other sources of penetration and resistance reduction.

Cheers

well, you could read my answer above to Maxtrux, im still not sure what to make of it, PoB doesnt help in this case either because it shows no change from using this gem at all, no matter if using 1 golem or several golems like I am, could of course apply a manual -10% lightning resistance in the PoB config options if the gem works the way I think it does and the wording on the gem implies,


because like as far as I can tell from the wording on the gem, a minion/golem with this support gem linked to it, will on hitting a target apply an exposure debuff to that target, that target will as long as it has the exposure debuff gain a negative 10% resistance penalty matching the highest incoming elemental damage type, nowhere does it state that this incoming damage has to be from the minion itself, only that it is of the highest damage and that it is elemental,


in other words the wording on the gem and on the wiki on exposure debuff leads me to believe it does boost my dps on a target that has the exposure debuff on it, otherwise wouldnt the gem state something like :

"Minions from Supported Skills inflict Exposure on Hit, applying -10% to the Elemental Resistance matching the minions damage type" ?


:S

"

...it looks like this would suggest that if a golem hits a target it will apply exposure debuff to this target, this target will then have -10% resistance to *any* elemental damage no matter the source, as long as it is the highest damage dealing type of any element...

"

still not sure what to make of this, does it *only* work with damage coming from minions, or will the exposure debuff also boost my dps as long as my dps is the highest damage dealing type?

The type of exposure is determined by the hit that applies it. The -10% applies to all damage of that type occurring while exposure is active. You can see how PoB handles it. If you have an active gem that supports exposure, PoB will ask you, in the config page, what type of exposure is being applied by that gem. At least it does for Wave of Conviction. I have not checked Elemental Army, which is a more recent add. It would be in the skill options box of the config page.

I agree the wording is not as clear as it could be, but if you try to apply "matching highest damage type taken" in a broader way to encompass other damage sources, you run into all kinds of problems. Highest damage type taken over what period? Can damage coming after exposure change the exposure? If so, there would be some language. Can damage coming after the exposure affect the game's choice of an exposure that got applied before the damage occurred? Clearly not. So does exposure really apply to all elements? That's not what it says.

Anyway, you get my point.

"

GreyLensman написал:

"

...it looks like this would suggest that if a golem hits a target it will apply exposure debuff to this target, this target will then have -10% resistance to *any* elemental damage no matter the source, as long as it is the highest damage dealing type of any element...

"

still not sure what to make of this, does it *only* work with damage coming from minions, or will the exposure debuff also boost my dps as long as my dps is the highest damage dealing type?

The type of exposure is determined by the hit that applies it. The -10% applies to all damage of that type occurring while exposure is active. You can see how PoB handles it. If you have an active gem that supports exposure, PoB will ask you, in the config page, what type of exposure is being applied by that gem. At least it does for Wave of Conviction. I have not checked Elemental Army, which is a more recent add. It would be in the skill options box of the config page.

I agree the wording is not as clear as it could be, but if you try to apply "matching highest damage type taken" in a broader way to encompass other damage sources, you run into all kinds of problems. Highest damage type taken over what period? Can damage coming after exposure change the exposure? If so, there would be some language. Can damage coming after the exposure affect the game's choice of an exposure that got applied before the damage occurred? Clearly not. So does exposure really apply to all elements? That's not what it says.

Anyway, you get my point.

mm yes I see I see, elemental army does not enable the exposure option in pob config but wave of conviction does, anyway, if we skip using elemental army support for golems and leave that aside, have a bit offtopic question then perhaps, (probably will just use minion speed or minion life as the last golem support gem) was thinking about wave of conviction and using something like this:


cast when damage taken+wave of conviction+physical to lightning (to ensure lightning exposure and be safe from the WoC self damage in phys reflect maps)+increased duration,


on a level 20 cast when damage taken, so when we take a big hit we autocast wave of conviction supported by phys to lightning with inc duration,im thinking this could be used as a decent dps boost on bosses ? the -25% lightning exposure gives me like +300k shaper dps in pob which is not that bad at my ~2 million current shaper dps so a bit over 10% more damage,


it would replace a current orb of storms setup I have linked to culling strike and arcane surge+ inc duration im using just to cull bosses at the moment and gain more dmg from arcane surge, although losing arcane surge and culling strike is of course a big loss too, but could at least reshuffle a bit and use flame dash with arcane surge instead of current leap slam + fortify setup, but then again fortify is also really good to have :D


thoughts on this and what would u think is better? bit offtopic maybe :P cheers anyway !

If you are only planning to give an Exposure to your opponent, you may leave that CWdT at Lv1, together with Wave of Conviction itself (supports can go 20 of course). What matter is not how much you damage the opponent but what damage is the highest. 'Course, since you are looking for lightning, you can still go 20 in order to proc some stronger Shock - your choice!

(on the topic of the CWdT:

"

secret_service86 написал:

on a level 20 cast when damage taken, so when we take a big hit we autocast wave of conviction

I've seen many a player think of the damage threshold of CWdT as a "everytime I hit that threshold I cast things" and less of a "after my life/ES/mana has been damaged enough I cast things". CWdT, like Arcane Surge Support, is a limit to reach with cumulative damage/mana spent)

Also, if you are going with Wave of Conviction, since only the highest Exposure is applied, you can take off Elemental Army from your lightning Golem since Wave would give a -25% debuff which is highest than the -10% debuff of Elemental Army

As of the "confusing wording", it's not something new in the game - GGG tried in the years to give a different wording or use a tooltip text in order to explain bad wording.
But, really, if Exposure worked as you said (as in, a Debuff that will give a -x% resistance to elements that hits the opponent, and this resistance changes depending from the latest, highest elemental damage taken), that would make it a reverse Elemental Equilibrium. No, the Exposure determines what eleDamage from the hit is the highest taken from the enemy, and gives a debuff that acts as a "-x% [elemental resistance chosen]" for a duration.

Don't know what build you are, but since you use leap slam I'd assume you are not using a Shimmeron+Wand asset, and thus you are not a Hierophant, ergo you don't proc Arcane Surge by merely casting spells.

Arcane surge has been buffed since Synthesis in order to be less of a "I'll put it in an utility skill so that it procs and give my other main skill more damage" gem, and more of a "why don't we have Elemental Damage With Weapons for spells?" gem. Perhaps you can try adding it to your Arc itself, rather than an Orb of Storm?

On CWDT + WoC...

That's been popular in past leagues - not sure about this one. I never liked it much because WoC is so slow. It could make sense on a close-range build. With a long-range build, I prefer to put something instant on the CWDT and self-cast WoC if I need it in the build.

hm it feels bad to drop leap slam + fortify , but would like to replace at least orb of storms for some guard skill like steelskin or something maybe, but would then lose both culling strike and arcane surge hmm.... also cant move arcane surge to be a link or support for my arc as it is big damage decrease from current setup, will have to think a little bit about what to do, but tnx for answers guys !

Everyone is pretty much right, exposure is an elemental debuff, and only the highest exposure per element is calculated. Enemy resistances and your penetration stack additively. Only the minion(s) linked to EA will be able to apply it from the support gem, though other methods of apply exposure exist.