👻3.20👻 Kay's Summoner💥SRS Bomber💀Poison SRS💀Melee SRS🕷️Spiders💀Skeleton Mages

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Deadandlivin написал:

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Yeah, our options are pretty limited and pretty much predicated on Spectres to be strong.

I thought of trying to build a Mage + Carrion Golems combination before but not sure how I would scale it. The issue with Mages that they do mixed elemental damage. I think Hatred would be the best way to build though. Hatred still affects Golems fully and 1/3 of the Mages. For curses you'd simply run Assassin's Mark and EW as it affets both minions fully.

Legacy of Fury, Crown of the Tyrant(2ex), EW and minion mastery alone brings monster resistance down by ~43% for bosses. 7% more pen and you get down below 0% which is already stronger than Flesh Crafter. Maybe running Elemental Army on skellies would be optimal as it would provide 10% exposure to all elements giving you 53% elemental penetration in the end.

I actually went ahead to test Skeleton Archers a week ago as a ranged minion. It worked, but only beause I have very good gear. When I looked up the Archer numbers on PoEDB I cried when I saw how bad the their actual damage and attack speed was.

Another idea I had was to try a Lightning minion build but with Golems and Spectres reversed. We'd then run Lightning Golems for clearspeed and Slave Drivers for single target. I think the numbers are there. Problem is it would be a Doryanni's Prototype build which's pretty much impossible to make budget friendly I think.

I actually bought a fractured wand base with Aggressive the other day.
I'll be crafting a +2 wand in the future to see how it works out.
I think it'll be great. Only problem is that hte base costs +10 ex which won't work for league starts. For league starts I prefer running a Maw of Mischief for aggresive and Frost Autoscouts in a Amplification Rod which also works as a psuedo 6-link. Extremely cheap and strong items for a couple chaos during league start :)

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Feel free to theory craft and make a build combining double minions with a helm and a chest. I'm honestly surprised not more builds like this exist as running 2 fully linked minions always beats out a single minion. Since minions are passive and always have full effect I kinda feel this should be the standard. The trend is to run a main minion in either your head or chest and support minions or Auras in the other link.

It works, I just don't think it's as efficient though. The only issue is being socket starved which can be a challenge. To solve this, I've began running a Hungry Loop on my AG. It saves sockets for things like Feeding Frenzy and you can use Elemental Army and Minion life to make him tanky too.

What's great with running dual minions (Or more like me) is that it works for all budgets too. +3 helms with either Minion dmg or Hypothermia is like 50 chaos during league starts, maybe 1 ex with good resistances and life.
Slap one minion in such a helm for a pseudo 6-link and another minion in your Tabula and you're literally running 2 minion builds at once.
It's hard to beat that.

I'd be eager to see what type of hybrid build you could cook up :)

I like your name for the build "multiminions" it's different to minion army :)

For me, a minion build has the main advantage of fast clear speed. Because the minion is doing all the hard work, you can just hold down your run button and zoom around the map :P Other builds need to move/stop/cast/move/stop/cast.

Ranged is always better for clearing. We have spectres, golems, skeles. Skele mages is just like play totems, so the clear speed is pretty bad actually because they also have a delay after you summon them :( Golems except for Carrion golem feel really weak. Like Flame Golem have no DPS at all (they really need a big buff!!) And Spectres have been nerfed really badly so you need NA to make them just OK.

Your explody AG is a great solution for melee minion builds though! I'm thinking about Dom Blow + Relic or DB + Purity + Relic build for multiminion melee + ranged because you need to hit in melee to activate Relic, so why not summon 9 Sentinels as well? But maybe DB + explodey AG is better?

I wonder about other coversion types. Triad 4R and Solar Guards? Triad 4B and RVA?

10ex is a good price! I paid 12ex for my base. 25ex to craft it. Good luck with your wand!


Edit: You can save a socket for EA if you use a ritual base:


btw Amp rod is just 5link. Intensify "cannot" support minions.

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TarrasqueSorcerer написал:

SSF Skelemage here, and I'm looking for advice how to craft upgrades. My current gear is basically all off the floor.

Gear

PoB: https://pobb.in/Z69lRvnvTrhF

I have materials and some bases, but barely ever done crafting.

Wand:
You should just buy it. It's not easy to self-craft and you might get +2 and no spaco to craft trigger. It's 2-4ex to buy it:
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Archnemesis/RWG5Wr4I7

Shield option:
1. change to Aegis Aurora (ES recovery on block)
2. craft life recovery on block. You just need a shield with shaper influence and use pristine fossils until you get %life on block. Hopefully you can get high life roll as well and maybe flat life on block too.


Gloves:
craft with essence of greed if you want more life. or Bound fossil if you want more minion damage.

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kayella написал:

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Deadandlivin написал:

The AG ALONE can clear a map. (Just need someone to kill a target first :D)

After I finish challenges, I will work on Infernal AG build (minion autobomber). It's not exactly like your idea, but the AG will clear the map by himself :P https://youtu.be/Di1AZNR_4W8

And then just use Triad 4R Vaal Skele on bosses I think.


Your version looks really nice for a support AG. Maybe a cheap version is normal gravebind + double obliteration 40% ?

Yeah, I tried to use Obliterations last league but it don't work cause AG can't use wands unfortunately. He can't use normal caster staves eithe, only warstaffs.

Synthesized explodey 1-hands only costs ~10 chaos each though so it's not too bad. They're 15% each so you can get 30% from two one hands.
A two hand synthesized weapon is like 5 chaos.
(Not sure about the prices during league start though, but I don't think explodey synthesized implicits are a thing)

What's nice with the synthesized versions is that you can convert the explosions to any element you want, including fire. So if you stack them with a crusader chest you get 60% chance to explode which is enough for it to be really consistent.
If you also run Legacy of Fury on him he'll basically have a 100% chance to explode dealing fire damage which should be insane. What's nice is that you also can spend some time crafting them for huge damage mods.

Explode mods scale with added flat damage and % damage, in your case %phys and %fire. So you could just alteration roll for a high %phys increased roll(179% is the highest mod but very rare) since non caster weapons can't roll elemental %mods. Then craft 65%% fire and 25% chance to ignite from Bench.

From Alteration spam alone you could get ~360% increased phys and ~130% increased fire damage pretty easily which would make his Explosions deal insane damage. With some damage links and most minion nodes in the tree you're definitely looking at the explosions dealing more than 100% of monster life up from 10% which is the base.

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I like your name for the build "multiminions" it's different to minion army :)

For me, a minion build has the main advantage of fast clear speed. Because the minion is doing all the hard work, you can just hold down your run button and zoom around the map :P Other builds need to move/stop/cast/move/stop/cast.

Ranged is always better for clearing. We have spectres, golems, skeles. Skele mages is just like play totems, so the clear speed is pretty bad actually because they also have a delay after you summon them :( Golems except for Carrion golem feel really weak. Like Flame Golem have no DPS at all (they really need a big buff!!) And Spectres have been nerfed really badly so you need NA to make them just OK.

Your explody AG is a great solution for melee minion builds though! I'm thinking about Dom Blow + Relic or DB + Purity + Relic build for multiminion melee + ranged because you need to hit in melee to activate Relic, so why not summon 9 Sentinels as well? But maybe DB + explodey AG is better?

I wonder about other coversion types. Triad 4R and Solar Guards? Triad 4B and RVA?

10ex is a good price! I paid 12ex for my base. 25ex to craft it. Good luck with your wand!

Edit: You can save a socket for EA if you use a ritual base:

btw Amp rod is just 5link. Intensify "cannot" support minions.

I think that's why 95% of us minion players are drawn to minion builds to begin with :P
The idea is to have the minions kill everything around us while we're walking around picking up loot!

And yeah, I tried skellies in the 3.16 patch. Did not like them at all for mapping.
It literally takes around ~1-2 second for them to even begin attacking when you summon them and you have to recast them every 1-2 screens you move.

Since I also like to design my builds like movement speed it's extremely anti-synergistic and just slow. I think skelly mages with their playstyle are very slow builds that are meant to move through maps at a slower pace. Probably tanky juggernaut type builds that can match the skelly clearspeed are better suited.

People seem to give Mage clearspeed more credit than they desserve in my opinion. Sure, with GMP, Chain and Fork et.c. their clear speed is good once they're out attacking things. But the delays from being summoned and having to recast them 26 billion times per map slows down your maps considerable.
They definitely don't fit into any zoomer style minion build.
I will say though, in things with static movement like Simulacrums and Blighted maps, Skeleton Mages are very strong and comfortable to use.

I've never made a Lightning or Fire Golem, I tried to PoB them last league after the 30% dmg buff. But they literally do zero damage at league start and are garbage material. With mirror gear they probably work, but everything works with mirrors. We need more minions that are strong on a budget too. The disparities are just too big right now. It's kinda unfair that meta minions do double the damage of everything else.

At the same time, we gotta be careful or GGG will just bring down skellies and Carrions down to the level of Spectres and the other Golems :P

The ritual base certainly looks interesting. Could save a socket slots for alot of minion builds and all you sacrifice is the 20% increased minion dmg from the bone helmet. Never knew about that ritual base.
I'm convinced now that Skelly Mages should ditch Flescrafter and run an Elemental penetration AG with that helm instead. It would give them 53% ele pen bringing bosses to -3% to all ele resistances. In addition, you can run something like a brass dome, Saqawalls nest for 40% double damage or any crafted rare chest instead.

I think Flesh Crafter is EXTREMELY overhyped and can't figure why everyone think it's the BiS endgame body armour for skelly mages. All it provides is 50% ele pen to bosses. Against normal bosses who mostly have 0% all res, it doesn't even add anything at all. The only scenario where Fleshcrafter is better would be in maps with the 40% added ele resistance map mod. This mapmod can just be rerolled with a new scouring and alch.
Simus have a 60-80% of a specific resistance mod on almost every wave. But this doesn't really matter since it's only 1 resistance so 66% of your mages should be unaffected. The only true benefit I see with fleshcrafter is that it's easy to use and good for cheaper league starts. But even on medium budgets, I think a penetration approach with a proper endgame chest should outperform it.

On Amp rod, I count the +2 as a pseudo link, it's ALMOST like an empower.
I find it very good during league starts as it allows us to get our fourth spectre very early. It only costs ~1 chaos too. And as mentioned, it opens up the helm slot for Maw of Mischief for aggro minions without Primordial Might very early which can save money :)

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Deadandlivin написал:

I think Flesh Crafter is EXTREMELY overhyped and can't figure why everyone think it's the BiS endgame body armour for skelly mages. All it provides is 50% ele pen to bosses. Against normal bosses who mostly have 0% all res, it doesn't even add anything at all....
The only true benefit I see with fleshcrafter is that it's easy to use and good for cheaper league starts. But even on medium budgets, I think a penetration approach with a proper endgame chest should outperform it.

Fleshcrafter also gives Minion ES and Chaos Dmg does not Bypass this like CI.

So I assume the vulnerable Skellys get more Defense from the ES.

I know that they are 4 seconds immune after casting (Blessed Rebirth) but their ES is a shield with Faster Recharge Rate.

From a Pure DPS Point of View, you are right.

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Aijendo написал:

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Deadandlivin написал:

I think Flesh Crafter is EXTREMELY overhyped and can't figure why everyone think it's the BiS endgame body armour for skelly mages. All it provides is 50% ele pen to bosses. Against normal bosses who mostly have 0% all res, it doesn't even add anything at all....
The only true benefit I see with fleshcrafter is that it's easy to use and good for cheaper league starts. But even on medium budgets, I think a penetration approach with a proper endgame chest should outperform it.

Fleshcrafter also gives Minion ES and Chaos Dmg does not Bypass this like CI.

So I assume the vulnerable Skellys get more Defense from the ES.

I know that they are 4 seconds immune after casting (Blessed Rebirth) but their ES is a shield with Faster Recharge Rate.

From a Pure DPS Point of View, you are right.

Fleshcrafter is actually worse for minion defenses than letting them run regular life. This is why you're required to run a Blessed Rebirth noteable for skellies to be playable. Fortunately, blessed rebirth seems to be affected by increased duration in your tree(Atleast I think so) which is why your Vaal Skellies can last for ~8 seconds in a simulacrum. After that they start getting oneshot by everything.

Remember that Fleshcrafter converts their life to ES.
If your Skeletons have 10k life per skelly and 25% chaos resistance, 50% of their life is converted to ES.
That means they have 5k life and 5k ES instead.
They needed to give Fleshcrafter the ability for ES to protect against Chaos dmg like with Shavronnes Wrapping. Otherwise, if you for example had 49% chaos res on your minions, they'd have 200 life and 9.8k ES.
If Chaos dmg penetrated ES like it usually does they would get oneshot by all Chaos damage.

Now, why is this worse for survivability?
Simply because of Regen. Fleshcrafter does not convert their life regen into ES regen. That means that your minions have close to no regen outside of the base Es regen values. Things like Renewal, Life From Death, Consecrated Ground et.c. will literally do nothing for your skellies if you have 49% chaos res on them. The problem with ES regeneration is that it stops when you take damage unlike life regen. So if your minions are in combat for a long time, they'll essentially never regen their ES. Only once they go out of combat, will they start to regen their ES again, hence why the chest has a 100% increased faster start of ES regen.

Now, for the skellies, this doesn't matter really since they still get oneshot with their ~10k health, hence why you run Blessed Rebirth. The problem is for your AG. If you get 49% Chaos Res on your animate guardian, life regen basically has ZERo effect on him. This is why it's adviced to not run ANY chaos resistance on your AG if you have a Fleshcrafter.

If you have a 100k hp AG and lets assume he has 49% chaos res, that means he has 2k health and 98k ES.
Base energyshield recharge rate is 33%/second which means that he's recharging ~33k ES per second. If he's running a Doppleganger and some regen on tree he usually has ~15% life regen per sec, this now only heals for 300 life/sec which is nothing.

The 33k ES per second sure is alot, but remember, ES can't recharge if you've been hit recently. So if he's in the heat constantly taking damage, he will NEVER recharge his ES. Base ES recharge is 2 seconds, so Fleshcrafter brings it down to 1 second.

This means that you have to keep track of your AGs health and everytime he gets low, you got to convocate him to safety, wait for 1 second and then an additional ~3 seconds for him to fully regen.

You now see why all minion creators urge their followers not to get any ES on their minions with a Fleshcrafter. It's very dangerous for your AG convert his HP to ES since unlike players, minions usually constantly are taking damage and they can't really recover ES then.

Compare it to the opportunity cost of running a different body armour.
You could run a Saqawalls nest for 75 all attributes, 20% mana reservation and a whopping 40% chance for double damage with Aspect of the Avian. (Minions double dip from Aspect of the Avian.
You could also run a Brass Dome for INSANE tankiness with +5% max ele res, 4.5k flat armour and crit immunity.

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Aijendo написал:

Fleshcrafter also gives Minion ES and Chaos Dmg does not Bypass this like CI.

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Deadandlivin написал:

They needed to give Fleshcrafter the ability for ES to protect against Chaos dmg like with Shavronnes Wrapping.

I repeat once again:

Fleshcrafter: Chaos Damage Does not bypass Minions Energy Shield
https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Fleshcrafter?so=search

But you are right, less regular Life = lower % Life Regen for Example.

I had an Awakened Spell Excho drop off Maven today. I'm trying to decide if it's really worth it for Mages or if I'm better off selling it to fund other upgrades like wand or even better ghastly eye jewels. There is a lot of conflicting info out there about whether or not the double damage on final cast actually does anything for skeleton mages.

Anyone have the definitive on how much, if any, Awakened Echo adds over regular 21/20?

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pearlbrian написал:

I had an Awakened Spell Excho drop off Maven today. I'm trying to decide if it's really worth it for Mages or if I'm better off selling it to fund other upgrades like wand or even better ghastly eye jewels. There is a lot of conflicting info out there about whether or not the double damage on final cast actually does anything for skeleton mages.

Anyone have the definitive on how much, if any, Awakened Echo adds over regular 21/20?

Example numbers for one skele in my build:

SE 21/20: 2.55M
Anom SE 20/20: 2.60M
Aw SE 5/20: 2.83M

POB calculated the DPS with the double damage mod, but skele mages don't get a repeat cast on their spell just 59% more cast speed. If they don't get dd, then DPS is just 2.62M.

If you want more damage, you can try Elegant Hubris near Devotion. Use divine orbs until you get double or triple +80% dmg.

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kayella написал:

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pearlbrian написал:

I had an Awakened Spell Excho drop off Maven today. I'm trying to decide if it's really worth it for Mages or if I'm better off selling it to fund other upgrades like wand or even better ghastly eye jewels. There is a lot of conflicting info out there about whether or not the double damage on final cast actually does anything for skeleton mages.

Anyone have the definitive on how much, if any, Awakened Echo adds over regular 21/20?

Example numbers for one skele in my build:

SE 21/20: 2.55M
Anom SE 20/20: 2.60M
Aw SE 5/20: 2.83M

POB calculated the DPS with the double damage mod, but skele mages don't get a repeat cast on their spell just 59% more cast speed. If they don't get dd, then DPS is just 2.62M.

If you want more damage, you can try Elegant Hubris near Devotion. Use divine orbs until you get double or triple +80% dmg.

Yep, I've been spamming one with divines looking to do exactly that. I honestly think outside that and a better wand I'm pretty happy with the character.

I was seeing a similar lack of a difference with Awakened Spell Excho in PoB. It's just that so many of the top end Skelly Mage players I thought it must have been more of a difference maker and I was just missing something.