The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

"

ogmersault#4806 написал:

Figure it out already damn.

I think those people who don't understand it, never will. It doesn't even worth trying to explain them, like talking to the wall. If their brain would be on, it is easiest thing to understand, which means it is not "on" and they will not listen anything you say.

"

Toforto#2372 написал:

"

ogmersault#4806 написал:

It’s not supposed to be fun to reach 100 for the average player. You know how I know? Because it takes an incredibly unreasonable amount of time, and there’s an exp penalty on top of that. It’s supposed to be a grind that only people that are willing to do that will chase. Figure it out already damn. Ever stop to think that maybe that was one of the reasons they removed that from the game?

So the game isn't supposed to be fun? That's not very good game design then. It will keep losing players until this is changed.

Every part of the game isnt designed to be fun for everyone.
If you try to make something thats supposed to be fun for everyone then its gonna be garbage.
Thats why it has different league mechanics, and different challenges for people to take on. Some people enjoy sanctum, some enjoy breach, some liked metamorph, others hate it, etc. Just like every game isnt designed for everyone.

"

Orion_3T#9801 написал:

"

Toforto#2372 написал:

And stop with your fixation on lvl100 this lvl100 that people don't care about this they just wanna level at their own pace without having their time completely wasted by the game.

Very much this. Those defending the XP loss always seem to assume the reason people don't like it is because they feel the need to reach level 100. But in many cases, I would suggest the vast majority of cases, that's not it at all.

I don't care about reaching 100 any more than I care about reaching Paragon 300 in D4. Which is to say, very little if at all. Even less actually, as there is a trophy for P300 in D4 but I will gradually get that on Eternal realm as it accrues XP from my season characters.

For most normal players the wall can be hit anywhere from level 70 onwards depending on luck with drops and crafting and how strong a build they are using. And if they fall even slightly behind the curve it becomes absolutely miserable.

Whenever that happens, it's a strong "I quit" trigger.

Yeah, as it’s been stated a billion times already, if you’re struggling to make it past lvl 70, an xp penalty is clearly not the problem here. It’s that you’re unwilling, or incapable of learning how to adjust. Just ask for an easy mode.

"

Toforto#2372 написал:

"

ogmersault#4806 написал:

It’s not supposed to be fun to reach 100 for the average player. You know how I know? Because it takes an incredibly unreasonable amount of time, and there’s an exp penalty on top of that. It’s supposed to be a grind that only people that are willing to do that will chase. Figure it out already damn. Ever stop to think that maybe that was one of the reasons they removed that from the game?

So the game isn't supposed to be fun? That's not very good game design then. It will keep losing players until this is changed.

Chasing 100 is not meant to be fun no, it’s meant to be a grind. You can’t discern the difference here? Oh man, an xp penalty is the least of your concerns

"

ogmersault#4806 написал:

Yeah, as it’s been stated a billion times already, if you’re struggling to make it past lvl 70, an xp penalty is clearly not the problem here. It’s that you’re unwilling, or incapable of learning how to adjust. Just ask for an easy mode.

What a bizarre claim. If the only thing that changed to make the game less fun was the XP penalty, then it is the one and only problem.

If someone is having fun making slow progress with a suboptimal build they enjoy playing, why is that a problem? It's not. Only for elitists who think if you don't play a super powerful build your enjoyment of the game is irrelevant.

"

Orion_3T#9801 написал:

Sounds like you haven't played Sekiro as there are no levels in that game. You can explore elsewhere and maybe unlock some new skills but you can't really just grind out new levels that improve your stats (health, damage etc) like you can in other souls-likes.

In Sekiro you can lose skill point progression which is pretty much the same thing. In Sekiro you're still losing progress on death.

"

In souls-likes the window is basically all the time because you can nearly always go pick up your dropped souls. Which is a core mechanic of the genre. Possibly the defining mechanic.

And yet people don't do that in Souls games, because if they screw up once they lose all their souls.

"

I have not said anything about running high tier maps. I am referring to a situation that could occur anywhere from T1 to T15.

Let's say you are just into mapping around level 68ish and are happily clearing T1 maps dying occasionally. You level up 4 times without any meaningful upgrades due to bad RNG, so you haven't got much stronger and still have approximately the same survivability. Those passive points help a bit but not nearly enough to offset the fact you are now getting about 1/4 of the XP for the same maps and losing 10% on death.

Yet each level makes the low tier maps that much easier and deaths less frequent, thats a natural progression of most games where leveling is a thing in the first place. When the area level is close to your level, then you play carefully. When you're very much overleveled, things die much faster and do less damage to you. Thats how it works.

If your build cannot handle higher tier maps, then you spend more time in lower tiers. People naturally want to rush to higher tiers as soon as possible because they give better loot and more XP per hour. If theres no penalty for doing that then they will always 100% ignore low tier maps nad just skip straight to high tier ones.

"

I am not talking about rushing to high tiers. I'm talking about staying on the same tier that was previously enjoyable and giving reasonable progress. I am not talking about some attempt to speedrun a meta build to 100, rather someone having fun playing the game with a build they have figured out for themselves. It only needs to fall slightly behind the power curve and the experience degenerates very quickly, the player feels like they are going backwards.

If it falls behind the power curve, then its an indicator that you have to do lower tier maps. You say you don't talk about higher tier maps but then simultaneously complain that you can't rush to higher tiers fast enough without dying.

"

You can say they should go and improve their build but they are already trying to do that. The issue is the experience is spoiled by this archaic mechanic.

That mechanic is called level progression. You don't rush Radahn level 1 in Elden Ring either because you'll just get crushed.

"

I understand that and for people who enjoy that experience, there is Hardcore. But if the only strategy being suggested as a solution is boring as hell, it's not a good solution. Better to fix the bad game mechanic forcing everyone to do that so the gameplay can be fun again.

In other words you want to rush straight to high tier maps.

"

Secondly, there are other ways to make death count that don't involve kicking those who stumble while they are down.

Such as? The solution you mentioned would just be a hyperbuff to XP overall and people would clear all the game content in less than 4 days, we would be back to Diablo 4 again. Your suggestion would mean the overall XP gain per hour would need to be nerfed to the absolute ground that you're lucky enough to get a level once per two full days of grind.

So far all your suggestions and complaints have culminated to you suggesting we should make the game excessively easy. If you really want to skip low level maps that much, theres always Trade and Carry services that allow you to do that.

"

Orion_3T#9801 написал:

"

ogmersault#4806 написал:

Yeah, as it’s been stated a billion times already, if you’re struggling to make it past lvl 70, an xp penalty is clearly not the problem here. It’s that you’re unwilling, or incapable of learning how to adjust. Just ask for an easy mode.

What a bizarre claim. The only thing that changed to make the game less fun was the XP penalty. It is the one and only problem.

If someone is having fun making slow progress with a weak build they enjoy playing, why is that a problem? It's not. Only for elitists who think if you don't play a super powerful build your enjoyment of the game is irrelevant.

Yep exactly, the only people who defend exp loss and other death penalties are just gatekeeping and getting some kind of ego boost from how they can copy-paste a meta build and reach lvl100.

"

So far all your suggestions and complaints have culminated to you suggesting we should make the game excessively easy.

Pretty much all they want and it isn’t gonna happen

"

Poe2WarriorMan#6401 написал:

"

So far all your suggestions and complaints have culminated to you suggesting we should make the game excessively easy.

Pretty much all they want and it isn’t gonna happen

Nobody is asking the game to be "easier". People are just asking for it to respect their time and be an actually fun game. Enjoy your ruthless player numbers in a few months if nothing changes, this game is doomed if GGG stick to the vision lmao

"

MEITTI#3999 написал:

In other words you want to rush straight to high tier maps.

You seem to have not understood me. The issue is that the same maps you were finding to be just the right challenge a few levels ago become too unrewarding to make up for the ever increasing loss on death. This could happen at any tier of map. I at no point said anything about not being able to go up a tier.