A Message to Path of Exile 1 Players

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Hilranger#2453 написал:

so many people foretold about this scenario and now it begins. I'm sure it will start up again, but keep in mind, we didn't get any guidance at all of when these milestones are targeted for in the future (poe2-2.0, etc, etc, etc). No future at all. I miss Chris, as it all seems to have gone wayward when Jonathan took over the person in front person.

bummer news to be sure

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Aldora_the_Summoner#4021 написал:

I was going to write something quite sarcastic given my frustration at the situation, but on reflection this is the time for sombre comments, not flippancy.

The event of this announcement really appears to be the culmination of an absolute failure of management and unfortunately, without some fundamental changes, I can't see the situation improving anytime soon.

I can only make logical assumptions from the data available to us publicly but it appears that the seeds of destruction were sown back around the time of GG's sale to Tencent. The acquisition decision was based upon the solid production history of the Western client game and the runaway financial success of the Chinese client with its P2W elements available for a price. The plans for a major expansion (PoE 2) was likely the catalyst for a buy out which no doubt would have included a development outline and revenue expectations.

Problems were encountered during development because the PoE 1 engine was an absolute spaghetti monster and the lofty ambition of the Developers were simply incompatible. No doubt there was a lot of time, energy and resources dedicated to trying to make this work and eventually the decision was made to split out PoE 2 into its own stand alone game. Personally I believe this was a very sound decision, however it seems to have suffered from poor risk management and inadequate management decision making.

Some might thing this development time is wasteful, however if it's managed and controlled properly then it can provide useful guidance for the separate product and many of the assets should be transferrable.

When undertaking any sort of project along these lines you determine budgets, milestones and stop/go parameters. Part of the initial risk assessment should have included that the scope was incompatible with the existing software, how much the company was prepared to spend to explore this, and then if the conditions were met, what were the options for next steps. Either reduce the scope to keep everything unified, or divide the products which would require further time and resources.

It's entirely possible that this did happen, though if it did it would seem that the need for further time and resources was significantly underquoted. Certainly at this point with a set constraint of time and resources you review the scope and you decide what can confidently be delivered. Not aspirationally delivered because you're a creative artist, but definitely delivered because you're accountable.

There were obvious signs that things were not going well. PoE 1 leagues slipped out to 4 months rather than 3 and while that was regrettable, it was handled appropriately. It's a good indication though that there were major problems, likely to be too ambitious a plan, too many difficulties that became time sinks, and no doubt pressure to deliver to a time frame.

Where the wheels really fell off.

PoE 2 has some major gameplay problems and the obvious reality is nobody needed to Beta test this to realise it. There were numerous closed tests with the various streamers and lots of feedback given. There would have been internal playtesters providing the same feedback too. The game simply wasn't ready for any sort of public release however management had already called the date and it was too late to stop. This train wreck didn't happen overnight, it would have been obvious more than a year ago that the scope of the game and the resources available did not align.

For me the most frustrating part of all this is that the Developers had a gold standard blueprint to follow: PoE 1. A review of the history of PoE 1 demonstrates the pathway to success:

1. Have a grand plan but start small and deliver on your promises. You want 10 acts, well develop three really strong ones and go from there.
2. Reduce the tedium for players. There's numerous failures here in PoE 1's past to learn from. Some time back they reduced the size of several of the acts because they were bad for the flow of the game and were wasted. Needless busywork to waste player time is unwelcome (looking at you 125 Talsiman's of a set type to get a Tier 1).
3. Respect your customers. GG initially had a very strong alignment with their players and were very good with their communication. Those days have been gone for at least a few years now thanks to numerous missteps (Archnemesis - this is a buff!).

Selling unlimited Early Access passes was simply the jerry can of fuel thrown into the burning dumpster. It was obvious this would have resulted in a massive influx of new players and that there were inadequate resources to manage that. Not hiring additional customer care staff during this period is unfathomable and an utter indictment on management, particularly across the holiday period.

To then compound poor business decisions with even more poor business decisions, robbing the foundation product of all resources to simply hold a garden hose against a raging bushfire is ridiculous. Those developers can contribute little of any real value to PoE 2 right now but they could have easily kept your company reputation intact. Additionally, a new league means a refresh of players and certainly additional revenue from MTX packs purchased. In essence, they would have more than paid for themselves, or put another way, paid for additional resources to work on PoE 2. The myopia of such a decision is breath taking.

Here's some other context points. GGGs profit from 2023 (last record on file) was $28.4M after tax. So, you're telling me you couldn't find an extra $1M in the budget for 10 more developers and 5 extra customer service staff? That's not even taking into consideration the roughly $25M obtained selling early access keys.

If it swims like a cash grab and quacks like a cash grab... well it's pretty obvious what it is.

Where the wheels actually fell off.

I've seen some people state that it's not possible to maintain one product and develop another which is just bafflingly ridiculous. So, Ford can only produce one car at a time and have to stop making hatchbacks before they can also build a truck? It's also patently obvious that you can continue to manufacture Tesla sedans and then also develop a Cyber truck. More relevantly, software companies continue to make new software while developing new versions. Microsoft can make an operating system, a spreadsheet and a document program all at the same time and even support multiple versions concurrently.

I understand very well the internal pressures facing a business and the compromises that need to be made along the way. However, this is a total failure of senior management and an inability to actually manage an outcome. Some will say that it's very difficult to project manage the production of a game and it certainly is, but that's also no excuse for mismanaging a project. The absolute tone deaf statement and failure to genuinely accept responsibility is galling and means that until things change at the most senior levels of GG, then this will happen again, and again.




Apologies for the appalling length of this and I expect many will skip over this as a consequence. For clarity, while PoE 2 is not the game for me I understand there are plenty that enjoy it. There's no need for this to be a divisive topic, each group can reasonably enjoy the game they prefer. In fact, PoE 2 players certainly deserve better than what they've received so far, and certainly PoE 1 players deserve a much better treatment.

Lastly, I've been a supporter of GG for many years and have spent enough to warrant a PoE 2 invitation. I can't see myself spending any more money with GG for some time though. They don't deserve it.

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Kupemeu#4587 написал:

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Aldora_the_Summoner#4021 написал:

<Edited for brevity for the point in question>

I can only make logical assumptions from the data available to us publicly but it appears that the seeds of destruction were sown back around the time of GG's sale to Tencent. The acquisition decision was based upon the solid production history of the Western client game and the runaway financial success of the Chinese client with its P2W elements available for a price. The plans for a major expansion (PoE 2) was likely the catalyst for a buy out which no doubt would have included a development outline and revenue expectations.

Can you give examples of some games, made by Tencent owned companies, that have p2w?

I will help you by listing fully owned companies, pick some

Funcom Conan Exiles, Samurai Shodown
Riot Games League of Legends, Teamfight Tactics, LOL: Wild Rift, Legends of Runeterra Valorant.
Sumo Group Sackboy: A Big Adventure и Hood: Outlaws & Legends.
Sharkmob Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodhunt.
Turtle Rock Studios Evolve, Back 4 Blood.

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Aldora_the_Summoner#4021 написал:

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Kupemeu#4587 написал:

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Aldora_the_Summoner#4021 написал:

<Edited for brevity for the point in question>

I can only make logical assumptions from the data available to us publicly but it appears that the seeds of destruction were sown back around the time of GG's sale to Tencent. The acquisition decision was based upon the solid production history of the Western client game and the runaway financial success of the Chinese client with its P2W elements available for a price. The plans for a major expansion (PoE 2) was likely the catalyst for a buy out which no doubt would have included a development outline and revenue expectations.

Can you give examples of some games, made by Tencent owned companies, that have p2w?

I will help you by listing fully owned companies, pick some

Funcom Conan Exiles, Samurai Shodown
Riot Games League of Legends, Teamfight Tactics, LOL: Wild Rift, Legends of Runeterra Valorant.
Sumo Group Sackboy: A Big Adventure и Hood: Outlaws & Legends.
Sharkmob Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodhunt.
Turtle Rock Studios Evolve, Back 4 Blood.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2858052/page/1