Endgame Map System is NOT Working

**This is not to say it's bugged or it's having errors working as intended**

Feedback;

-The map system UI is "cool and interesting" at the start of mapping, but becomes too big, aimless, and stretched out.

-While trying to offer "choices" it ends up heavily restricting, or punishing you for not playing all over the place. Example being that when you juice a side of the map the maps effected are random and not all the map type/biome you want. As a result you can complete all of the zones, but not because you wanted those zones.

-It is not clear when you are entering/exiting a biome so mapping can become very inconsistent with the layouts you would prefer

-Fog of war makes "RNG" map mechanics (pinnacle bosses and unique maps) less consistent. Because you don't actually have a guide as to where these things are (the light beam helps, but doesn't show your terrain blocks - another point). Thus you end up searching and compounding the above problems.

Terrain issues on the map UI also cause inconvenient mapping choices as sometimes bodies of water or mountains block a path you thought would lead you to your intended goal.

-The endgame skill point unlocks further force you to engage with the pain points of this system highlighted above.

-Revamp the system. There is no point in calling it "mapping" anymore when we are no longer dealing with maps. There is no point in using PoE1's system if for only a portion and then pigeon holding yourself around it. This seems to be an issue PoE2 is constantly finding itself in - it's stuck between finding its own identity while also trying to make itself an "HD Updated" PoE1. - more on this point later though.

-Take inspiration from OTHER games than just PoE1. While it makes sense to build off your laurels, it only makes sense if you follow through with what gave you that success. Because they're not committing to an ENTIRELY new system - yes that involves risk - they're stuck in this lukewarm situation where the game isn't bad, but it isn't good either. It's becoming forgettable. It's not innovating anything, but just trying to make safer choices with things the previous game already did. Why develop a "mapping" system like this that has its own identity of traversing a large board, but then stick to same ideology of PoE1. Whereas now they're called waystones instead of maps, which has only gone backwards by REDUCING player choices.

-Scrap the current system as it is. Throw the baby out with the bath because it's not working, and to build upon it any further is a waste of money, developers time, and players time. I can appreciate what they're trying to do, but it's just taking the wrong things to mush together to create this system. If you want biomes, then make a system that rewards players for sticking to certain biomes, as well as making it possible for the player to choose to play in them!

POTENTIAL SOLUTION/SUGGESTION

Take more inspiration from Gauntlet Legends/Dark Legacy (one of the ORIGINAL ARPGs that perfected so many things!) in terms of the "portal" system.

In Gauntlet Legends when you first enter the portal zone you're offered a choice between like 6 or so different biomes each with like 6 or so "maps" to choose from.

How this could work with PoE2 endgame and tower system is you could make pinnacle events more consistent, provide specific bonuses for each biome, towers would be specific to each chosen biome rather than a grouping of scattered maps.

Progression could be tailored to more specific and could be accessed quicker by the player, thus no longer feeling like our time is being disrespected.

I HIGHLY recommend GGG checks out what Gauntlet Legends did as what they're doing right now is essentially attempting it, but to a very unorganized and scattered degree.

Below is a video linking the portal room;

https://youtu.be/GD3rPUdt2CU?si=cIRl7BVH9wyvY8kO

-Another idea I got after watching video for about 2 seconds is "party play". When opening a waystone you have to option to open the "party" and allow players from all over the place to queue in and attempt the map with you. The waystone holder chooses when the map is started.

GGG please take inspiration from ALL ARPGs. PoE was great because it perfected things Diablo 2 had done AND then took risks of its own. Build upon systems people already enjoy. Don't waste this opportunity trying to re-invent the wheel.

Signed,
A player who wants this game to be amazing.




***REDDIT POST WITH PICTURES***

https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1k2czn0/poe2_is_in_need_of_inspiration/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

-A system like this would also allow "campaign skipping" to be unlocked after the campaign is finished once. Make a new character, just approach the biomes and they would scale to your level until 65 when they would start requiring waystones to power the devices. Skill points and other things could be gained at the end of completing a biome.

I'll be honest I don't understand the fog of war. It's just a progress barrier. The goal is still to find citadels or clusters of towers if your trying to loot, the fog makes that take longer but otherwise the goal is still the same. If I were to identify a cluster of towers 50 maps away I would still have to complete 50 maps to path to that cluster, I'm not sure why that isn't enough friction lol it's not like because we can't see the citadels that we are just content doing random map nodes for infinity.

This season I am already bored out of my mind and will probably be done before I have seen the Arbiter once.
Meanwhile in PoE1 the mageblood grind feels like a breeze for me. Guess thus endgame is simply not for me.

"I'll be honest I don't understand the fog of war. It's just a progress barrier. The goal is still to find citadels or clusters of towers if your trying to loot, the fog makes that take longer but otherwise the goal is still the same. If I were to identify a cluster of towers 50 maps away I would still have to complete 50 maps to path to that cluster, I'm not sure why that isn't enough friction lol it's not like because we can't see the citadels that we are just content doing random map nodes for infinity."

I think they're mistaking "tedium" for "challenging" content, which does not equate to fun. They need to play some gauntlet legends for some inspiration imo. That game had so many things going for it and could EASILY inspire systems in PoE2 to make the game so much better

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MaxW81#9965 написал:

This season I am already bored out of my mind and will probably be done before I have seen the Arbiter once.
Meanwhile in PoE1 the mageblood grind feels like a breeze for me. Guess thus endgame is simply not for me.

Well, there is very little endgame content compared to poe 1, also very few ways to interact with it, clearly a far cry from it.

I personnally think the atlas being an actual map to travel around is a cool concept and has a lot of potential, but at the moment it's super bland. It's just empty. There's 3 citadels and a bunch of unique maps here and there but otherwise there's really nothing to find. Effectively the system doesn't serve any purpose.
I'm assuming(/hoping) they will eventually add something like influenced regions with different content to interact with and perhaps your atlas could shape up differently depending on which regions you chose to explore. That would be cool.

Also, once we have more endgame content we really need ways to tailors the maps more depending on what we want to see (scarabs hello ?).
The tower system on it's own is simply insufficient, and pretty boring honestly.

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Razial22#1635 написал:

"I'll be honest I don't understand the fog of war. It's just a progress barrier. The goal is still to find citadels or clusters of towers if your trying to loot, the fog makes that take longer but otherwise the goal is still the same. If I were to identify a cluster of towers 50 maps away I would still have to complete 50 maps to path to that cluster, I'm not sure why that isn't enough friction lol it's not like because we can't see the citadels that we are just content doing random map nodes for infinity."

I think they're mistaking "tedium" for "challenging" content, which does not equate to fun. They need to play some gauntlet legends for some inspiration imo. That game had so many things going for it and could EASILY inspire systems in PoE2 to make the game so much better

Kind of an odd topic gaming discussion but when I went from playing soulsborne games to playing lies of p I realized you can just improve the quality of life a lot and not really at the expense of challenge because those seeking challenge will generally find a way to make it happen.

With the atlas the general consensus strategy I think people come to is "if I path in on direction eventually I will come across a citadel" but that just simply isn't true. Then after days of pathin in one direction you might say "well let's start patching West because apparently patching one direction doesn't lead to a citadel" and then after 2 days you find out that also isn't helping you find a citadel.

Juxtapose that against people who have found 3+ citadels within their first week and have fought the arbiter and I don't see why those who are suffering the bad RNG would continue to play.

If there's no fog of war i can still have bad map RNG but at least then I can have a short term goal of where I want to end up. I have no goal in endgame with this atlas...the goal is just complete 5-8 nodes to get to the next tower and hope we see a citadel. And with the current 0% success rate after 45 towers it's time to pack it in and play something else. They fucked it up

"

If there's no fog of war i can still have bad map RNG but at least then I can have a short term goal of where I want to end up. I have no goal in endgame with this atlas...the goal is just complete 5-8 nodes to get to the next tower and hope we see a citadel. And with the current 0% success rate after 45 towers it's time to pack it in and play something else. They fucked it up

It's not that it's a "bad" system, but it's not optimal and leads to player frustration and burn out. I'm not saying my suggestion is "good", but I think it would mitigate far more pain points and lead to better player retention. Gauntlet Legends is such a good base for ARPG elements that isn't explored enough. I mean PoE1 was inspired heavily from D2

Bump to keep the convo going

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Razial22#1635 написал:

"

If there's no fog of war i can still have bad map RNG but at least then I can have a short term goal of where I want to end up. I have no goal in endgame with this atlas...the goal is just complete 5-8 nodes to get to the next tower and hope we see a citadel. And with the current 0% success rate after 45 towers it's time to pack it in and play something else. They fucked it up

It's not that it's a "bad" system, but it's not optimal and leads to player frustration and burn out. I'm not saying my suggestion is "good", but I think it would mitigate far more pain points and lead to better player retention. Gauntlet Legends is such a good base for ARPG elements that isn't explored enough. I mean PoE1 was inspired heavily from D2

My suggestion is remove the fog of war. Worst case scenario is people find citadels faster. They still need to be good enough to complete the content and then the arbiter content. The fog of war is an artificial progress barrier that ONLY leads to player frusturation. Your never excited to see fog of war. I'm not saying we need the game to be easy, but I don't think demystifying the endgames UI gimmickry is making the game easier than say, making a deadeye all of the sudden.