Most PoE content creators are a joke and PoE2 still doesn't know what it wants to be.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 написал:

Well, yes. With the art style they are going for, it looks great.
It's not groundbreaking or awesome, and PoE2 looks way better, but something looking better doesn't mean something else is ugly.
By that logic, every woman who is not a super model would be rated as a turd.

First of all, we can talk about artstyle when there actually is one. No rest for the wicked has a different artsyle, World of Warcraft has a different artstyle. Both Last Epoch and PoE are quite generic in their style so all they can really do with that is make it look better.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 написал:

Ppl don't review bombed PoE2 because of streamers telling them or LE being a thing.
Ppl review bombed it because it was a hot mess in 0.1.0, and GGG made it worse with 0.2.0 instead of improving.

Streamers stoked the fires and amplified everything to the extreme is what I was saying, but they are also largely at fault for the confused direction PoE2 is in because they're the ones getting asked for opinions the most, INCLUDING years ago on that first test when they were invited to playtest it and they were incredibly cringe with their "too slow" feedback and whatnot. I strongly believe that is what fundamentally fucked up the direction of the game.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 написал:

Dude... the gameplay doesn't become more meaningful because you make the game "hard" from the first area you enter. And "hard" is, in PoE2's case, hitting a sponge - tedious.
The gameplay becomes meaningful when you put something into the fight and get something in return. That you don't have to "put in" something so early into the game is because it's the introduction to the game.
The campaign is literally the tutorial to make you familiar with the mechanics, and from there, the difficulty increases.
You can prefer an earlier increase in difficulty, sure, but then use the "campaign skip" and, well, skip the tutorial.

Game got easier in 0.2 then it was in 0.1, but it also got more tedious. I haven't died at any boss but the fights felt significantly longer. All these things are caused by the vagueness of the direction they're trying to go into and confusing feedback. But even in this confused mess... it was still more enjoyable then what LE's combat had to offer. Those new "Champion enemies" they introduced in LE? Damn I was hoping for mechanics and stuff... literally melted them with disintegrate which is supposedly one of the worst skills in the game. Didn't get to see a single mechanic from them. You can argue that game should be easy early on but If it's this easy there's no point for me to progress at all. I really wanted to try a build I had in mind but it felt so offputting that I don't even want to try anymore.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 написал:

At least here we agree. You can't have both. It's literally impossible by definition. A grinding game with godlike power fantasy in endgame, but "meaningful slow combo bla combat" the entire game... nope.

Now, we have "meaningful" PoE2 combot (player-side), but PoE1 combat (monster-side).

The combat isn't meaningful for either side still. I even gave an example to another guy in this same thread with that Tactician build... the game has fundamental issues on both player power and the monster side. To put it bluntly... not much really changed from 0.1. The underlying issues are still there.

I agree that CC are totaly JOKE.
They are.

I always find it interesting how one camp in the POE2 debate wants "proper Combat" but none of them can define that. Do they want a fight with every enemy to take 5 minutes? That is a game like Elden Ring, not an ARPG. You cant have an ARPG without the Action. In reality POE2 is much more spammy screen clear than POE1. You need A LOT of investment to get that high in POE1 and if you put in that you absolutely should be clearing screens. If you put 200 div in your build you should be a god.

The only problem is GGG catering to the "Proper Combat" crowd when he is not building an adventure RPG but an Action RPG. If you want "proper combat" packs have to go away, replaced by single enemies with mini boss status. Then of course that isnt an ARPG.

I also notice a lot of POE2 advocates spew hatred on POE1 but for reasons that are non-sequitur. POE1 is a super deep game. In fact the same people who dont want POE2 to be as "easy" as POE1 will say in another post without skipping a beat "POE1 is too complex." Well which is it, bro? Too complex or too easy. If you think it is too easy, cool, show us. Go log in, make a char and kill Maven or get to 1000 depth.

The reality is that people like the OP want some mythical creation, an ARPG with no A in it. Where all combat is "meaningful" (whatever that means). What is more, they are happy taking it all the way to game failure. No matter how many people reject the "vision" they hold to it like this is a charity, not a business.

If GGG had stuck to its original idea and made POE2 a revamp of POE 1 we would be looking at a masterpiece right now. Instead they have royally blown it by not learning anything 10y of making an ARPG has taught them.

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Kotolino#2642 написал:

The off-meta classes, like Tactician, are the real trash of this game today. The game is too easy now: just create a Huntress. I’m hating this game and posting my opinion everywhere in the hope that, at some point, someone reads it and resolves the problems with other classes or nerfs the Huntress.
The economy is broken. If you choose another class, you can’t farm, and there’s virtually no chance of dropping items or divines. This game is over. That’s the reality. I think carefully about what I do in the game and don’t take the easy route—I don’t choose the meta class with BUGGED INTERACTIONS. This is the same mistake Diablo 4 made with Spiritborn. I switched from D4 to POE2 because there I’m free to create new builds. In version 0.1, the game had good balance and you could play in any style, but now that’s no longer the case.
My verdict is that version 0.2 has killed POE forever. Either you have the guts to nerf and bring back the challenging gameplay experience, or just make everything easy to kill so everyone can be equally happy.

Looking at my current progress and build. I think it is possible to please both sides. And we are pretty damn close to archiving this.

My hope for the game is that we can blast during stuff like maps. Maybe not as fast and mindless as ls / serpant speer builds (Those builds are boring to play in my opinion). And have proper boss fights like we had in the campaign.

I play a parry / explosive spear build and had a blast yesterday after finally getting res capped and progressing my atlas quite a bit. I now finally see at least some drops and stopped getting one shot.
I even got my first audience of the king (I never saw one in 0.1 despite doing a few hundred rituals). I was super frustrated before that. The only thing which kept me playing was me wanting to improve aspects of my build, to be less focused on bleed and more on the explosive speer, and the game play itself.

I think blasting in maps and having meaningful boss fights should be the goal. People always talk about combos and I think they are taking it to literal. We could just got into the direction to use different skills and tools for different scenarios, instead of doing everything with 1 skill.

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Kraythax#2592 написал:

I always find it interesting how one camp in the POE2 debate wants "proper Combat" but none of them can define that. Do they want a fight with every enemy to take 5 minutes? That is a game like Elden Ring, not an ARPG. You cant have an ARPG without the Action. In reality POE2 is much more spammy screen clear than POE1. You need A LOT of investment to get that high in POE1 and if you put in that you absolutely should be clearing screens. If you put 200 div in your build you should be a god.

The only problem is GGG catering to the "Proper Combat" crowd when he is not building an adventure RPG but an Action RPG. If you want "proper combat" packs have to go away, replaced by single enemies with mini boss status. Then of course that isnt an ARPG.

I also notice a lot of POE2 advocates spew hatred on POE1 but for reasons that are non-sequitur. POE1 is a super deep game. In fact the same people who dont want POE2 to be as "easy" as POE1 will say in another post without skipping a beat "POE1 is too complex." Well which is it, bro? Too complex or too easy. If you think it is too easy, cool, show us. Go log in, make a char and kill Maven or get to 1000 depth.

The reality is that people like the OP want some mythical creation, an ARPG with no A in it. Where all combat is "meaningful" (whatever that means). What is more, they are happy taking it all the way to game failure. No matter how many people reject the "vision" they hold to it like this is a charity, not a business.

If GGG had stuck to its original idea and made POE2 a revamp of POE 1 we would be looking at a masterpiece right now. Instead they have royally blown it by not learning anything 10y of making an ARPG has taught them.

Exactly. And thats exactly the state we had in 0.1 mostly. A lot of builds could be gods and screen clear fast to effectively farm all the endgame content (which is ALL about speedfarming - breach, delirium, rituals, etc.). I have no idea what fuse burnt in their brains to take that away and still call it an ARPG on Steam...

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IonSugeRau1#1069 написал:

First of all, we can talk about artstyle when there actually is one. No rest for the wicked has a different artsyle, World of Warcraft has a different artstyle. Both Last Epoch and PoE are quite generic in their style so all they can really do with that is make it look better.

You not liking the art style doesn't mean there is no art style, next.

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Streamers stoked the fires and amplified everything to the extreme is what I was saying, but they are also largely at fault for the confused direction PoE2 is in because they're the ones getting asked for opinions the most, INCLUDING years ago on that first test when they were invited to playtest it and they were incredibly cringe with their "too slow" feedback and whatnot. I strongly believe that is what fundamentally fucked up the direction of the game.

Connecting your hate for streamers to everything doesn't make sense.
Imagine hating content creators that much, but then giving their bla so much weight.
And btw, years ago, PoE2 was faster than now, and the CCs that tested it said it's too slow... but GGG still made it even slower. Seems like their "cringe feedback" had barely anything to do with what we got.

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The combat isn't meaningful for either side still. I even gave an example to another guy in this same thread with that Tactician build... the game has fundamental issues on both player power and the monster side. To put it bluntly... not much really changed from 0.1. The underlying issues are still there.

Yeah... that's why I wrote "meaningful" and not meaningful.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 написал:

On one side you are trying to introduce combo skills, parry, etc... that warrants proper combat... on the other side, endgame is still the same screenclear mess as in PoE1

They also have POE1 enemies, densities, stage design instead of Souls like enemies, densities and stage design.

They really need to decide one way or the other what they want. The hybrid is terrible.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 написал:

I'm sure you've all seen how so many of them shilled super hard for LE, even saying completely absurd things such as "LE has great graphics now" ... riiight.

Can anyone seriously look me in the eye and say that, especially after playing PoE2?

These same jokers fueled the community heavily against PoE2 for their own gains and whims and made the negative reviews explode on steam.

Let me be clear, there is and was valid criticism here and there but it was nothing that warranted that scale of negative reviews imo. And a lot of the criticism was still the same tired PoE1 propaganda since launch.

That being said, there are things that LE does that PoE2 SHOULD definitely take heavy heavy inspiration from... such as crafting, trading and the circle of fortune mechanics they have. So there definitely is some merit to LE. Combat gameplay however is not one of them... I've literally tried to play it again for a bit and quit at lvl 37 because of how easy and weightless and trivial everything felt.

Now let's talk about the second part... PoE2 still doesn't know what it wants to be... and that, in my opinion, is the worst thing right now about the game. On one side you are trying to introduce combo skills, parry, etc... that warrants proper combat... on the other side, endgame is still the same screenclear mess as in PoE1 and bosses still get vaporized really easily, albeit at a slightly slower pace, but still same in nature.

I've also heard Jonathan saying that they are actually trying to please both camps? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE.

If you want a game with good combat, you look towards games like No Rest for the Wicked and inspire yourself much more heavily from those. If you want the same "screen clear" bs you look towards games like PoE1. The core designs just go against each other...

dude, did you played this fking game?! Did you reached endgame content? did you tryied not amazon LS build? I just got into 0.2 since it launch and seen how AWFUL it became from start without any propaganda from steamers. Just because i KNOW this game, i see what they did my neutering like 99% of endgame content. Moreover they killed like every skill in the game, my first run ended after 3 location of act 1, it was mind-numbling killing white mobs for hell 30 hits. And it was a start, how i supposed to "git gut" here? Killing white mobs with 0 loot within 2 fist location for an hours?!

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Kraythax#2592 написал:

I always find it interesting how one camp in the POE2 debate wants "proper Combat" but none of them can define that. Do they want a fight with every enemy to take 5 minutes? That is a game like Elden Ring, not an ARPG. You cant have an ARPG without the Action. In reality POE2 is much more spammy screen clear than POE1. You need A LOT of investment to get that high in POE1 and if you put in that you absolutely should be clearing screens. If you put 200 div in your build you should be a god.

The only problem is GGG catering to the "Proper Combat" crowd when he is not building an adventure RPG but an Action RPG. If you want "proper combat" packs have to go away, replaced by single enemies with mini boss status. Then of course that isnt an ARPG.

I also notice a lot of POE2 advocates spew hatred on POE1 but for reasons that are non-sequitur. POE1 is a super deep game. In fact the same people who dont want POE2 to be as "easy" as POE1 will say in another post without skipping a beat "POE1 is too complex." Well which is it, bro? Too complex or too easy. If you think it is too easy, cool, show us. Go log in, make a char and kill Maven or get to 1000 depth.

The reality is that people like the OP want some mythical creation, an ARPG with no A in it. Where all combat is "meaningful" (whatever that means). What is more, they are happy taking it all the way to game failure. No matter how many people reject the "vision" they hold to it like this is a charity, not a business.

If GGG had stuck to its original idea and made POE2 a revamp of POE 1 we would be looking at a masterpiece right now. Instead they have royally blown it by not learning anything 10y of making an ARPG has taught them.

You probably see the challenges number next to my name? You know what those mean? No? OK
PoE1 is overbloated with systems, not "too complex", there's a major difference there.

If PoE1 was as good as some diehard fans such as yourself make it up to be, they would've made the sequel exactly like the first one, don't you think??? Don't you see the lack of logic in this conclusion???

Don't need to argue with you further then that... you're exactly part of the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBQU-a8j_8E

check first minutes of video and tell me again- is that MEANINGFULL GAMEPLAY!? is that you want? enough slow for you now?