Exp loss on death is too punitive.

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YNRY#3842 написал:

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qQbonmjtAZ#7824 написал:

I never said the game is hard. You just admitted yourself the game is tedious, that's the problem. I enjoy souls games for their difficulty and would have no problem if POE2 incorporated meaningful challenges, not fake challenges using over punishing penalties and time sinks.

If GGG actually added difficulty I wouldn't have a problem. Losing my XP with no option to recover it is not difficulty, it's pure tediousness. Elden Ring is much more difficult than POE2 and yet I can still recover my runes, while at the same time still enjoy the challenge of taking risks or playing aggressively without having to worry about losing hours of progress. Currently with POE2, my only option to avoid losing those hours is using one of the handful of op builds on an op class or playing an extremely boring cautious defensive playstyle that might still result in death if I get swarmed or mis time a single dodge roll. That's not challenging or engaging, it's just frustrating and not fun.

I think you're way too invested in this thread for someone who has already uninstalled the game. You haven't done anything but complain--and you ignored my last post. You can either take your account off private and post your ninja and we can go over how to improve your survivability, or you can go put a +1 in the megathread for EXP loss whiners and move on.

I couldn't care less if you think I'm too invested. My account settings are set to default, if it's private it's because I had no reason to change it. It's telling when you have to resort to petty tactics that amount to character assassination as a lazy attempt to avoid the actual topic

Instead of having an elitist condescending mindset and using personal attacks, you could try and logically explain why recovering XP near death location would be a bad thing.

Played Elden Ring , BLoodborne, Dark souls 3 , yes recovering the runes is a good mechanic, but that's not POE2. GGG won't probably copy this very specific game design from the Souls.

That's why I think a most easy and tangible change would be to reduce the loss to 5% and be done with it.

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qQbonmjtAZ#7824 написал:

I couldn't care less if you think I'm too invested. My account settings are set to default, if it's private it's because I had no reason to change it. It's telling when you have to resort to petty tactics that amount to character assassination as a lazy attempt to avoid the actual topic

Instead of having an elitist condescending mindset and using personal attacks, you could try and logically explain why recovering XP near death location would be a bad thing.

But I am an elitist. I figured out how to avoid dying by myself. Now I don't have problems with losing exp. You are capable of doing the same.

You're asking for the game to change. The burden of explanation lies with you. But I'll honor your request: I want it to be very difficult to get to a very high level. I think it's a good thing that the game incentivizes people to continue to put effort into their character past level ~95.

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YNRY#3842 написал:

But I am an elitist. I figured out how to avoid dying by myself. Now I don't have problems with losing exp. You are capable of doing the same.

You're asking for the game to change. The burden of explanation lies with you. But I'll honor your request: I want it to be very difficult to get to a very high level. I think it's a good thing that the game incentivizes people to continue to put effort into their character past level ~95.

At what point has the player data ever indicated that XP loss is effective for incentivizing the most players to stick around to reach level 100?

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SpankyKong#9805 написал:

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YNRY#3842 написал:

But I am an elitist. I figured out how to avoid dying by myself. Now I don't have problems with losing exp. You are capable of doing the same.

You're asking for the game to change. The burden of explanation lies with you. But I'll honor your request: I want it to be very difficult to get to a very high level. I think it's a good thing that the game incentivizes people to continue to put effort into their character past level ~95.

At what point has the player data ever indicated that XP loss is effective for incentivizing the most players to stick around to reach level 100?

I'm not aware of any such data. But why are you asking? I never brought that up.

We playing game where it's by design will cause deaths. 80% of them will be from lags, especially on EU servers (that's why I would never play Hardcore - too punishing for non-game mechanic issues). The rest is lack of skill, new content, incomplete builds and bold damage-oriented builds.

For now I'm coping with 10% exp penalty by using Omen of Amelioration to make it 2.5% instead, which is one map progression in average. But still it feel awkward to buy in-game protection omens every time to protect myself from random lags, bugs and super-powered unbalanced mobs like unique rares with 2-screen attack range (like Sun Priests attacking through walls once they locked on you for 2-3 screen distance, or giant zombies with trees having 2 screen 1-shot AOE killing you before you even can see them loaded and locked on you) and Enraged\Hasted Aura\Proximity Taglibility mods combination (luckily, Enraged at least rare mod, the rest 2 - way too common combination).

Death should be less punishing in the game, because it is natural part of the gameplay for 98% of the players, the remaining ones playing Hardcore and especially Hardcore+SSF - professionals, knowing game too well to have fun from regular gameplay, no point in turning game into nightmare for 98% of payers (yes, EA\F2P game has to make money still, which means devs should make us happy so we buy more tabs and skins in return).

UPDATE: on the other hand, we don't have anything else to lose on death. So probably, introduce T20 maps + death penalty as is would be completely fine. Something like: we can buy at most 10xT15s from Doryani per day, craft 3x T16s or 1x T17 from this, then T16-17 drop T16s, T18-19 drop only T17s, T20 - corrupt T19 only. This will bring us more challenge and ability to restore lost XP by doing rare and more complex maps.

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YNRY#3842 написал:

I'm not aware of any such data. But why are you asking? I never brought that up.

I was just curious if you had any idea.

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YNRY#3842 написал:

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qQbonmjtAZ#7824 написал:

I couldn't care less if you think I'm too invested. My account settings are set to default, if it's private it's because I had no reason to change it. It's telling when you have to resort to petty tactics that amount to character assassination as a lazy attempt to avoid the actual topic

Instead of having an elitist condescending mindset and using personal attacks, you could try and logically explain why recovering XP near death location would be a bad thing.

But I am an elitist. I figured out how to avoid dying by myself. Now I don't have problems with losing exp. You are capable of doing the same.

You're asking for the game to change. The burden of explanation lies with you. But I'll honor your request: I want it to be very difficult to get to a very high level. I think it's a good thing that the game incentivizes people to continue to put effort into their character past level ~95.

I've already explained numerous times in multiple threads why recovering XP near where you died doesn't make it any easier to hit 100. Souls games do this and it doesn't make the game easier, it makes it less tedious without forcing a time sink on the player that doesn't amount to a real challenge.

You aren't even addressing this actual mechanic, you are just generalizing about difficulty in general. Explain how being able to recover lost XP allows a player to not invest in their build after lvl 95 or even 90. That makes no sense at all. You still have to physically regain the XP at the location and if you run out of portals from Max juiced map or too many deaths then you are still being punished for playing content beyond your build. If you play it safe with white maps you're not gaining XP as fast.

If you figured out how to stop dying it's because you bought meta gear or are using a meta build with ES that allows you to clear maps at POE1 speed. I guarantee you haven't "figured it out" with warrior or Merc using armor and evasion and if you have it's the same problem that makes the game boring: meta build clearing the screen so you don't have to engage with enemies or playing extremely cautious and defensive so you take out enemies at range avoiding engagement. Campaign was fun with more meaningful combat, endgame ruins it with insanely fast monsters that stack spells and swarm you on top of taking away your progress, which eliminates the fun engaging play style.

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qQbonmjtAZ#7824 написал:

I've already explained numerous times in multiple threads why recovering XP near where you died doesn't make it any easier to hit 100. Souls games do this and it doesn't make the game easier, it makes it less tedious without forcing a time sink on the player that doesn't amount to a real challenge.

You aren't even addressing this actual mechanic, you are just generalizing about difficulty in general. Explain how being able to recover lost XP allows a player to not invest in their build after lvl 95 or even 90. That makes no sense at all. You still have to physically regain the XP at the location and if you run out of portals from Max juiced map or too many deaths then you are still being punished for playing content beyond your build. If you play it safe with white maps you're not gaining XP as fast.

If you figured out how to stop dying it's because you bought meta gear or are using a meta build with ES that allows you to clear maps at POE1 speed. I guarantee you haven't "figured it out" with warrior or Merc using armor and evasion and if you have it's the same problem that makes the game boring: meta build clearing the screen so you don't have to engage with enemies or playing extremely cautious and defensive so you take out enemies at range avoiding engagement. Campaign was fun with more meaningful combat, endgame ruins it with insanely fast monsters that stack spells and swarm you on top of taking away your progress, which eliminates the fun engaging play style.

This isn't a souls game. You can't just run past mobs in this game. You can't kill bosses in this game at level 1 just because you picked up a cheesy weapon and know their move sets. And actually I would argue that if DS/Elden Ring took away runes and implemented EXP loss on death, the game would be harder.

I am addressing the mechanic. You just don't like my answer. The answer: if you don't die, you don't have to worry about exp loss anymore. I didn't say that you can't invest in your character after level 95 withouth EXP loss. I said that it incentivizes it. When EXP loss actually becomes a problem (around that level in my experience this league) it forces you to think about how to improve your defenses and how much damage you're willing to sacrifice to do so. That's a pretty refreshing feeling after a week or two of just being in farmville. Losing EXP is a good incentive to not die. Merely losing a portal to a map is nothing. The Atlas has plenty more to go to.

As for your last paragraph -- this is no longer about EXP loss. This is a critique of the speed of the end game and the lack of build diversity. Of course I am playing the meta. I accidentally started the league playing the meta because I was excited for this game's translation of my favorite character in Diablo 2. Everyone knows that armor doesn't work in many late game scenarios and that it's very difficult to stack life (impossible to compare it to ES). That's not an experience loss problem; that's a balance problem.

E: To put it another way - No amount of experience is going to make armor or evasion competitive with ES. No amount of experience is going to make tangletongue not broken.

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Mamillian#8657 написал:

If you enjoy XP loss on death you probably enjoying cuckolding too.

Incels can't be cucked, buddy ;) Checkmate.