The problem with Exalted Orbs

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The userbase of PoE is always growing, since closed beta days. Every major expansion release generates a bigger peak of population.
But yeah, between each expansion, between each challenge league start, the player base shrinks. It's the nature of this kind of games, most people don't play it months and months without breaks. They come back when a patch hits, when the ladder is reset, they play a few weeks, a few months, reach their own goals, and move on until the next time. It's the same thing in each arpg, it was already the same case in D2 online 15 years ago.

This is partialy true about the d2 part and arpg's nature.
But the thing i pointed is not the shrink due to that but the one due to non satisfaction of players regarding actual economy. And you should know an Arpg with a bad economy is a dead one on the short run if you played some more than diablo 2 in old times :) ( it nearly happened to d3 aswell they just has been enough smart to save it before it was too late ).

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Please prepare for more increased price of Exalted Orbs thanks to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3hht78/so_this_is_how_we_managed_to_accumulate_72_mirrors/

Thanks for sharing.

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MortalKombat3 написал:

I expected exalted prices go up, BTW. However, this does NOTHING to players who dont use pure exalteds for crafting. As exalted price (relatice to other currencies) go up, all prices listed in exalteds go down.

I'm afraid this will not happen.

A lot of "x Ex b/o" prices will just stay (because seller is too lazy to adapt or does not want to).

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I'm afraid this will not happen.

A lot of "x Ex b/o" prices will just stay (because seller is too lazy to adapt or does not want to).

Or cause they know they will be rich as always by doing that when coming back in standard league.
PoE story.

This means it's time for you to sell your exalts and play the "chaos orb game". That way you might have a better outcome and something worthwhile to use.

Exalt prices likely won't go up because of that +3 thing, but it does go to kind of explain a bit of why they went up so high, so quickly.


As for the whole people leaving argument, don't bother, you don't have that information, even if you had a full 100 friends in game and they all specifically told you they were leaving, that sample size is so small and irrelevant.


If you don't like the chaos inflation in temp SC leagues, then don't play in temp SC leagues. I decided I wasn't going to play SC temp leagues anymore or at least not be the focus of my time. Why, because its a complete waste of time, no SC league has came close to ambush or anarchy in terms of fun, not only that historically the price of exalts in chaos has went from being reasonable to insane much quicker.

I'll agree that 70+ chaos to an exalt is a ridiculous amount, but expecting a fix from GGG isn't going to happen, aside from the removal of eternals, GGG has done nothing to really "influence this change" at least directly.

Maybe making some of these once common unqiues more rare had an effect, like LC, ratsnest, ect. But overall this is just the players in SC leagues never really using the currency for anything that isn't GG, causing both hording and inflation in the process.



I'll make a separate topic with feedback on 2.0 with my experiences, but for the vast majority of "you people" it will mostly be irrelevant as you play in SC leagues.


Put eternals back in, leave mirrors as well, can't believe you "idiots" begged for GGG to remove an orb that ultimately upset the balance of exalts. Even funnier when it affects SC players much harder then HC players.

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goetzjam написал:

Put eternals back in, leave mirrors as well, can't believe you "idiots" begged for GGG to remove an orb that ultimately upset the balance of exalts.

Personally, I'm not altogether surprised by the WB c:ex ratio. Went further than I thought it would, but I knew the ratio would go in the direction it did, the whole time I was arguing against Eternals.

I still say good riddance. It was a nonrandom crafting orb, and crafting should be as random as possible.

One thing people don't get is that orb RNG is a powerful force for antimonopolization. With good RNG, even a relatively stash-poor casual player can make an amazing item and instantly go from economic nobody to inspiring envy. This is precisely the variance casuals need to get shake off treadmill economies controlled by the nolife community. Granted, only a rare few get lucky, but these lucky casuals are the only exception to an otherwise nolife homogeny. With strong RNG, casuals have a hope of catching up to the dominant players; without it, they have none.

And that is why Eternals are bad. I have more sense, however, than to be anti-Mirror; it may be non-random, but we need a solid incentive to ensure there is some endpoint to currency hoarding, and that trying to craft an ultimate item does not become a game of chicken where you would be better off trading for it if it suddenly becomes available for purchase.

What GGG should do from here is change Scourings such that they remove one random affix from magic/rare items, instead of their current function. This would allow them to act as "sometimes Eternals," while still forcing bigtime crafters to start over on a new base most of the time. Most importantly, it can be common enough and random enough to allow some of RNGesus' chosen to rise up the economic ladder.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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goetzjam написал:

Put eternals back in, leave mirrors as well, can't believe you "idiots" begged for GGG to remove an orb that ultimately upset the balance of exalts.

Personally, I'm not altogether surprised by the WB c:ex ratio. Went further than I thought it would, but I knew the ratio would go in the direction it did, the whole time I was arguing against Eternals.

I still say good riddance. It was a nonrandom crafting orb, and crafting should be as random as possible.

One thing people don't get is that orb RNG is a powerful force for antimonopolization. With good RNG, even a relatively stash-poor casual player can make an amazing item and instantly go from economic nobody to inspiring envy. This is precisely the variance casuals need to get shake off treadmill economies controlled by the nolife community. Granted, only a rare few get lucky, but these lucky casuals are the only exception to an otherwise nolife homogeny. With strong RNG, casuals have a hope of catching up to the dominant players; without it, they have none.

And that is why Eternals are bad. I have more sense, however, than to be anti-Mirror; it may be non-random, but we need a solid incentive to ensure there is some endpoint to currency hoarding, and that trying to craft an ultimate item does not become a game of chicken where you would be better off trading for it if it suddenly becomes available for purchase.

What GGG should do from here is change Scourings such that they remove one random affix from magic/rare items, instead of their current function. This would allow them to act as "sometimes Eternals," while still forcing bigtime crafters to start over on a new base most of the time. Most importantly, it can be common enough and random enough to allow some of RNGesus' chosen to rise up the economic ladder.

There is 2 sides to that "getting lucky coin"

People can chaos spam stuff they want, ultimately for people that hate RNG so much they won't bother doing so.

Eternals, while rarer in drop then exalts, allowed for some of these same "casuals" to get them as drops, further increasing their wealth multifold, by allowing them to convert to many exalts, chaos, ect. The economic impact eternals have far outways this "negative' stigma that repetitive forced RNG did by eternal and exalting an item.

The funny thing is it probably was mainly standard players doing the complaining about eternals, why on earth would you even bother complaining about them? The economy is so assbackwards there compared to the rest of the game, eternals in the grand scheme of things didn't have any relative effect on their economy, however as stated here, eternals have a larger impact on temp leagues, by keeping exalts and enabling options for crafting.

Eternals worked in conjunction with random orb crafting, you could eternal and exalt something 100 times and not get what you wanted, ultimately it preserved the work you had some so hard, while also being an expensive investment.

You say crafting should be as RNG as possible, funny enough now people craft weapons in THE SAME EXACT WAY, utilizing masters to finish out weapons after top IPD rolls. Kinda silly IMO that the removal of eternals was "suppose" to open up options, but ultimately it just removed them.

"antimonopolization" funny enough you mention that, they removed eternals and we have someone in warbands with 72 mirrors. If that was the goal, then not only did GGG fail, they just ruined a lot of peoples chances of getting that "lucky" orb drop to help them in their quest and removed high end crafting in temp leagues.

Lets dig into the whole, RNG crafting and then look at masters, almost every single issue with crafting has involved masters in some way.


Instance crashing, resulting in rollbacks.

Duping involving hideouts

Using the master mods to "black out" options while crafting, this is largely abused to now make +3 staffs and bows, which is part of the reason exalts is so high in warbands and the monopoly of mirrors there.


So its funny to say RNG should be the largest factor in crafting when GGG literally added a "better" way to craft in the masters. If it wasn't for the multiple exploits\crashes that happened in the past year, the community wouldn't of flipped out about eternals, until the GM expansion multiple T1 crafted items in temp leagues were a rarity, which they should be. But now we have people with double digit mirrors in wealth and no eternals and the economic impact is worth allowing such monopolization you were trying to avoid?

Forgot to mention these +3 methods I think used eternals in the past, which is part of the reason why its so profitable now.


Scours shouldn't remove just 1 mod, we need something that removes all mods and makes items white, not only for maps, but high ilevel items, ect. No don't tell me just scour a map multiple times, the orb serves its purpose, add another if you'd like but don't mess with scours.

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goetzjam написал:

Lets dig into the whole, RNG crafting and then look at masters, almost every single issue with crafting has involved masters in some way.

So, involved nonrandom, deterministic crafting. Hmm.

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goetzjam написал:

don't tell me just scour a map multiple times

Okay. Scour it once or twice. Otherwise use chaos.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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goetzjam написал:

Lets dig into the whole, RNG crafting and then look at masters, almost every single issue with crafting has involved masters in some way.

So, involved nonrandom, deterministic crafting. Hmm.

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goetzjam написал:

don't tell me just scour a map multiple times

Okay. Scour it once or twice. Otherwise use chaos.

Yeah quote it without the rest of the context, you know like this wasn't an issue premasters and predupes\exploits. Clearly its not eternals that are the issue...

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goetzjam написал:

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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goetzjam написал:

Lets dig into the whole, RNG crafting and then look at masters, almost every single issue with crafting has involved masters in some way.

So, involved nonrandom, deterministic crafting. Hmm.

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goetzjam написал:

don't tell me just scour a map multiple times

Okay. Scour it once or twice. Otherwise use chaos.

Yeah quote it without the rest of the context, you know like this wasn't an issue premasters and predupes\exploits. Clearly its not eternals that are the issue...

I think Master-crafting exclusives (anything which cannot drop or orb naturally) is just wrong; I would have it so masters cannot add any mod which doesn't occur naturally and with higher numbers. Masters currently are a problem, because of such exclusives.

Your context was essentially saying you need to be lucky to have an eternalorb drop. This is true, but it is luck in loot, not luck in craft. A "removes 1 random" or would be luck in craft, not in loot.

These are two drastically different things psychologically, similar to the difference between buying a winning lottery ticket, versus luckily finding a wallet full of money randomly on the sidewalk. The former encourages taking a gamble; the latter encourages loot filters but not much else.

Why did so many players hate Eternals? Because it was a symbol of their distance from actually participating in creating, of how they were farming for their economic overlords instead of for themselves. This was slightly inaccurate (it's not like they got nothing in return for the Eternal), but actively participating in crafting, as a lottery, is much more dynamic than the alternative.