VP was never the problem

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Apocalypso_ написал:

For me the only problem is damage reflect.

You risk your rip to this stupid mechanic, and that's why people don't play selfcast spellcasters.

What is the point of reflect if you can easy make safe content with ranged stuff like mines or totems?

elementalist/elementalist ascendant+yugul+sybil and yoU're literally immune to reflect.

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Draegnarrr написал:

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

I honestly don't even care. Pretty much every build of mine is now dead.

CWC Tank = DEAD

Wild Strike Raider = DEAD

Molten Strike Boss Killer = DEAD

Scourge Flurry Scion = DEAD

Kitava's Frostbolt Assassin = DEAD

And the list goes on. I won't be pigeonholed into Summoner or Slayer. Fuck this.

I said it before and I keep my word. This is where I stop all support and playing.

Have fun playing logout mini-games sprinkled with one-shots on top.

Why are all these dead? I've played a wild strike raider every league, molten strike never needed VP because its TTK is so short you could just dodge once then gib the boss. I don't know the specifics of the rest but i really don't think all these are dead, their skill caps probably risen thats about it.

And how far did you come with it? A build is "dead" if it formerly managed to bring you to the shaper but now doesn't work anymore. We are not talking about stuff that just gets you through the acts, because that´s just plain easy.

VP wasn't the problem... Berserker and Slayer are..

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OneLameDad написал:

VP wasn't the problem... Berserker and Slayer are..

VP was ALWAYS A FUCKING PROBLEM and that's coming from me.

The offset to remove VP is obviously not going to go well like there likely not going to fuck with reflect and monsters one shotting you and shit in addition that most defenses other then EHP IS DOG SHIT.

Yes VP was a big issue but it doesn't change the fact that other defenses are fucking terrible.

Nothing wrong with slayer and berserker it's doing there job see the insta-heal shit is stupid like I'm not going to lie and say it isn't because it is fucking stupid VP wise.

Reflect in this game is, pardon my choice of words, fucking aids. I never liked VP to begin with which is why most of my favourite builds shifted to Chaos, Minions, Traps or Mines. Nothing is more frustrating than plowing through an otherwise easy map at 94+ and suddenly you instagib yourself because that otherwise meaningless pack had reflect on it. It is just bad game design and doesn't add to difficulty at all.

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VenGanZa9 написал:

I really do not get what all the fuss is about :)

My first PC was a Tandy TRS80 in 1973, so I have seen a lot of games come and go. I have no qualms at all with the way GGG tries to improve the game going forward. While some developers cater to the lowest common denominator and follow the path of least resistance I am heartened that GGG seems to actually care about the game they have created.

I find it odd that people protest when GGG makes changes to some skill post-league that was found to be overly effective shall we say. I sometimes wonder if there really are people out there who would enjoy a game where you can face roll content forever, I prefer to believe the majority of people enjoy a game that is somewhat challenging on an on-going basis.

GGG has no way to predict what will transpire with builds once final patches go live, alpha/beta testers are in no way sufficient to discover what the masses will come up with. Just as EVE Online devs never imagined anyone would live inside worm holes and yet they do.

It never ceases to amaze me how the community is happy to moan about balance changes between leagues. You would think the sky had fallen in when the ES changes were announced, and yet the world kept turning, we all jumped on the life meta and had a ball in Harbinger.

I have no real issues with how GGG changes the game, I am confident things are constantly improving. Let them change VP, let them change whatever they deem needs to be changed, it really doesn't faze me, I know I will be sitting there waiting to get in queue next league like most of you.

We have a few GGG staff in my guild, so I know they care and play the game just as we do. The double dipping nerfed my beloved EQ Slayer, but a fresh league brought fresh new approaches to things. All I can say is bring it, new league I will be there VP or no VP :)

Seriously? GGG just throws in some changes and hopes for the best? Okay, that is a little bit hyperbole, but you think they are just doing mechanical changes and not looking for loopholes and interactions.

I do not disagree that it is one of the Internet's sole purposes in existing to find ways to break and beat games. But your comments that GGG knows less about their own game than the players makes them seem like naïve idiots.

Which, to the truth, some people may agree, but I give them more credit than that.

Finally - my stance is always that GGG is FULLY AWARE of what their changes will do and have ideas of what overpowered interactions will come in the next major change (aside from stuff like major exploits we have seen that are patched out during league play). These sweeping, paradigm-shifting changes fuel the longevity of the game. If double dipping was not removed, we would all (and by all I mean meta most) still be using fire and poison. If ES and VP interactions were not changed, we would all be running 12,000 + ES builds. But we are still playing despite the changes, and frankly, still having fun for the most part.

Also, as a footnote: The sky did fall when the ES change happened. Builds that were perfectly viable were completely gutted and useless. And I don't care what one person says they may have salvaged from their elementalist scorching ray/whispering ice build - it's bullshit and the build is now worthless and unplayable.

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VanGhul написал:

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Draegnarrr написал:

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

I honestly don't even care. Pretty much every build of mine is now dead.

CWC Tank = DEAD

Wild Strike Raider = DEAD

Molten Strike Boss Killer = DEAD

Scourge Flurry Scion = DEAD

Kitava's Frostbolt Assassin = DEAD

And the list goes on. I won't be pigeonholed into Summoner or Slayer. Fuck this.

I said it before and I keep my word. This is where I stop all support and playing.

Have fun playing logout mini-games sprinkled with one-shots on top.

Why are all these dead? I've played a wild strike raider every league, molten strike never needed VP because its TTK is so short you could just dodge once then gib the boss. I don't know the specifics of the rest but i really don't think all these are dead, their skill caps probably risen thats about it.

And how far did you come with it? A build is "dead" if it formerly managed to bring you to the shaper but now doesn't work anymore. We are not talking about stuff that just gets you through the acts, because that´s just plain easy.

I did guardians last league with an oro's sacrifice raider and one leech node, you really don't need VP and if you need VP to kill a boss with 10mil dps (molten strike) then I have no idea wtf you are doing.

Basically you can still get to Shaper, the only thing losing VP does for most of these builds is means you have to dodge telegraphs.

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I did guardians last league with an oro's sacrifice raider and one leech node, you really don't need VP and if you need VP to kill a boss with 10mil dps (molten strike) then I have no idea wtf you are doing.

Basically you can still get to Shaper, the only thing losing VP does for most of these builds is means you have to dodge telegraphs.

VP isnt really for bosses (especially not shaper)

it's more for those insane double beyond/beyond breach nasty mob maps with insane density where you jump in the middle of a pack and every single one of them keeps chunking you for half your hp :P

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shaunika90 написал:

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I did guardians last league with an oro's sacrifice raider and one leech node, you really don't need VP and if you need VP to kill a boss with 10mil dps (molten strike) then I have no idea wtf you are doing.

Basically you can still get to Shaper, the only thing losing VP does for most of these builds is means you have to dodge telegraphs.

VP isnt really for bosses (especially not shaper)

it's more for those insane double beyond/beyond breach nasty mob maps with insane density where you jump in the middle of a pack and every single one of them keeps chunking you for half your hp :P

Absolutely correct. There is only one attack you can even face leech from shaper and it does not take any effort or much net loss of dps to spend the .5 seconds to manually side step.

VP is not enabling players to trivialize end game bosses, its enabling players to progess exp in the face of random ass spike damage from conventional mobs and letting players progress exp is like anthrax to GGG.

Just checked Warlord's profile, turns out he's actually serious about quitting the game because GGG is making a stand against some of the brain-dead players. Not that this will actually change anything, other than forcing some people to wait for Mathil to make a new build. He went and deleted all of his characters and everything. That, to me, is hilarious. Warlord is someone I've been hoping would stop posting on the forums for ages now, so now I'm starting to think he's serious.

Regarding any of the claims he's made about melee; saying you need Vaal Pact to survive is actually pretty insulting to me. It's him basically proving that he's just trying to talk big about something he has next to no knowledge about. "True Melee" skills like Dual Strike and Viper Strike aren't even that bad if you know what you're doing, and certainly don't need instant leech to be viable. Especially considering melee builds generally have easy access to the best defensive mechanics in the game such as block, dodge via. Acrobatics and easy Endurance Charge generation.

The only real difference between "True Melee" and Bladeflurry & Sunder type melee skills is you have to sit in the middle of a pack to deal area of effect damage, which isn't even that big of a deal if you use Leap Slam or Whirling Blades for movement. Which you should be if you're using swords (foils in particular), which are by far the best melee weapon type in the game currently. The actual area of effect of a skill like Dual Strike while using melee splash is comparable to skills Cleave, Reave and Bladeflurry. Using Foils, Dual Strike's initial weapon radius isn't even that bad, and plays pretty much like any other area skills so long as you're aware of your base range. I know this because I actually play skills like Dual Strike, was actually the first build I played in 3.0 both in Standard and in Harbinger.

Yes, it's definitely a bit slower at clearing content compared to other melee skills, and losing a support slot for Melee Splash sucks, but if you don't care about the clear-speed meta that much then it shouldn't matter to you. If GGG transformed Melee Splash into a keystone effect or something of the sorts as so you wouldn't have to waste a support gem, then I'd probably play name-lock melee skills a fuck ton more frequently. The only reason I chose to play Dual Strike over other skills was because of the jewel that removes the need for Melee Splash.