VP was never the problem

I think this is a (potentially) good change and to everyone getting upset, remember we have only seen one change that is coming in 3.1 let's be patient and wait for the patch notes to come out.

What I would like to see with the VP changes:

1. ghost reav working with VP

2. ES nodes brought back behind CI

3. Monster damage/boss life toned down

4. Loot drops on maps raised

Those are the key changes I'd like, the full list is huge, but this is what I need to see in 3.1 to make me want to play it. If the monster damage/boss life stays the same I agree w/ captain warlord, I think I am done with this game which is a shame because I really loved playing it.

POE to me was always a game that was in a good state with a lot of potential but needed to make some key improvements. Over time, I haven't seen those improvements made and so far it looks like the game developers are taking the game in a different direction than where I feel it needs to go.

Of course the VP nerf will break many existing builds. That's why we will have a tree reset : so the time invested is not wasted. The only waste would be instant leech item like bloodseekers or acuity if they remove it aswell (if they don't, many builds will not be broken, just a lot more expensive).


Other than that, old VP was indeed an OP defensive mechanism, trivializing every other defensive option of any self hitting build.
With old VP and 0.4% of life leech node as only tree investment in defense, things like full yolo KB wander (and I played some) were tankier than actual tank classes.
It is what I call OP.

The only guys who can be honestly angry about it are those players who relied on VP to survive their 5 second freeze potato PC in middle of a breach double beyond by holding right mouse button, coz well, they have no other choice (but they don't play HC anyway since they probably can't dodge every one shot attacks).


With the new VP, not only Slayer is viable but every single class in this game can have up to 66% of their HP/sec (even more with increased recovery items). From my perspective, it is enough to keep most of the way of playing (exeption of the CWDT only build perhaps) still viable, if u add a little bit of another defensive mechanic.
For fuck sake guys, even the shaper's beam is tankable without old VP. So it will still be with new one.


Like a lot, I'm a bit sad that I will not play right click immortal build anymore, but lets face it : it doesn't kill diversity, it increases it.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

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BaKouneT написал:

it doesn't kill diversity, it increases it.

Aren't you one delusional fella.

As you did during the 29 previous pages, another expected ad nominem attack.

But no, I'm not. Before you had VP+nothing builds, tomorrow you will have VP+endu, or VP+dodge&evasion or VP+armor or VP+flat phys reduction instead, for me 4>1.

Yes 4.5k hp and no other defenses are probably gone, but how many will rises on their ashes? You'll never find out I guess, rest in peace little princess, peace out.

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BaKouneT написал:

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

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BaKouneT написал:

it doesn't kill diversity, it increases it.

Aren't you one delusional fella.

As you did during the 29 previous pages, another expected ad nominem attack.

But no, I'm not. Before you had VP+nothing builds, tomorrow you will have VP+endu, or VP+dodge&evasion or VP+armor or VP+flat phys reduction instead, for me 4>1.

Yes 4.5k hp and no other defenses are probably gone, but how many will rises on their ashes? You'll never find out I guess, rest in peace little princess, peace out.

Jesus you are mental. Nerfing something NEVER increases build diversity.

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TheAshmaker написал:

Jesus you are mental. Nerfing something NEVER increases build diversity.

why not? I got he's example vs your "mental" things.
Look at D3. Blizz don't nerf only buff and we got 1-2 playable builds per character.
GGG constantly nerf things and this is on of the reasons why we got many playable builds.

i can tank 3-4 minotaur attacks if the map does not have extra dmg:
6,5k ES BOW no armor, no evasion, no instant leech, 1,6% leech.

by the time minotaur attacks me 1 more time, i can recover about 3-4k es while i get hit for about 4k es

with 50% more leech from new vaal pact is going to be easy.

but so many times i get oneshotted from beyond bosses or if the map boss has lot of extra dmg.


current leech is well enough for ES and i believe even for life, just the remaining ES players alive has allready learnt to survive the nerf hammer of 3.0 and realized leech is not the problem

even life players will realize instant leech won't be the end of the world, you even have pots...


the problem is monster dmg, or by my side, 6,5k ES on bow or 8,5k with shield with all legacy gear is a joke to get oneshotted so easily.

untill oneshot mechanic exists even when you sacrifice a bit of damage for defence, kill before get hit will always be the best way to play this game, this is why dps is always the better choice than defence, strategy and player skill will never matter anything

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TheAshmaker написал:

Jesus you are mental. Nerfing something NEVER increases build diversity.

I guess we disagree on the meaning of "diversity", u speak about theoretical diversity, I speak about played diversity.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

It's like saying "Look at the kid selling ice cream. He only has vanilla and chocolate. Look at this supermarket. They have 100+ flavors."

Like... no shit.

This is a good exemple: in a world were vanilla has 100% increase sugar, everyone buy it, eat it, get addicted to it.
Remove this additive, and suddenly people start to buy other flavors too.

And it saves some people to from diabetes.

And your previous message tend to confirm what I'm saying too :

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

As if anyone can't use Enduring Cry or charges or even Dodge/Block... My god. Some people on here...

Like enduring cry by itself (with 2 points in VP and a life leech node) is supposed to be enough defenses to do all the game content? I think it is not supposed to be enough, and I guess developers had the same conclusion.





PS : I like when u call me Jesus.

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BaKouneT написал:

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TheAshmaker написал:

Jesus you are mental. Nerfing something NEVER increases build diversity.

I guess we disagree on the meaning of "diversity", u speak about theoretical diversity, I speak about played diversity.


PS : I like when u call me Jesus.

Sorry guys, but I'm with the proclaimed mental patient here. I don't understand how the logic of VP = diversity calculates in your minds, because all I see is a one way street with instant leech. Your LEECH build either has it, or it doesn't.

If it has it, viable/OP. If it doesn't, not viable or struggle, unless Slayer.

How is that good for diversity exactly? Without VP, people will be forced to look elsewhere to make their builds viable. Which means a MORE DIVERSE list of builds and mechanics being used. Be it in the form of hybrid ES/Life, regen over leech, combination of both, high evasion, dodge, spelldodge, block, spellblock, armour, charges, fortify, certain uniques that nobody ever used because life and damage is all that mattered with instant leech.

No. I'm totally with BaKouneT. He's making more sense than all of you combined.

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Xavathos написал:

Without VP, people will be forced to look elsewhere to make their builds viable. Which means a MORE DIVERSE list of builds and mechanics being used.

You are right - in theory.

In reality players tend to leave nerfed mechanics for dead and just dont touch it anymore - like ES. No new ES build around after nerf I´m aware of. Not one.
Players will resort to builds, that will work no matter what and thats indirect dmg dealing.
So totem, minions, mines and traps are going to have a field day early next league.

Once streamers (not players) established a new meta, regular players might consider running those builds - if they look fun enough and can be funded. If not, they might as well quit early and leave a ghost town behind, just like Harbinger.


So yes I hope you are right, but its nowhere near being a guaranteed thing to happen and might well turn into the opposite.

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Xavathos написал:

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BaKouneT написал:

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TheAshmaker написал:

Jesus you are mental. Nerfing something NEVER increases build diversity.

I guess we disagree on the meaning of "diversity", u speak about theoretical diversity, I speak about played diversity.


PS : I like when u call me Jesus.

Sorry guys, but I'm with the proclaimed mental patient here. I don't understand how the logic of VP = diversity calculates in your minds, because all I see is a one way street with instant leech. Your LEECH build either has it, or it doesn't.

If it has it, viable/OP. If it doesn't, not viable or struggle, unless Slayer.

How is that good for diversity exactly? Without VP, people will be forced to look elsewhere to make their builds viable. Which means a MORE DIVERSE list of builds and mechanics being used. Be it in the form of hybrid ES/Life, regen over leech, combination of both, high evasion, dodge, spelldodge, block, spellblock, armour, charges, fortify, certain uniques that nobody ever used because life and damage is all that mattered with instant leech.

No. I'm totally with BaKouneT. He's making more sense than all of you combined.

1. To not have it doesn't mean "not viable or struggle" there is plenty of build viable without it and yet not only Slayer.
This thread is full of statistic of viable builds without it, including in HC.

2. VP is not removed, it is changed. So if VP was part of builds or not, VP will still be part of builds or not. Nothing different here.

3. Has said by Xavatos :
with old VP u have VP defense, that's it.
with new VP u have VP+something else defenses, and the something else can be many different thing, meaning many different build.

Ofc today you already have these VP+something else build, but they are less meta than VP by itself coz they sacrifice clear speed.
So perhaps it is an illness to say that but I keep thinking that this nerf will increase diversity, at least in meta builds.

I'm sorry if every time u played something it got nerfed, but this VP nerf is deserved.
It doesn't make the game perfect, it doesn't fix other way of defense, but still deserved.