VP was never the problem

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Orbaal написал:

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Xavathos написал:

Without VP, people will be forced to look elsewhere to make their builds viable. Which means a MORE DIVERSE list of builds and mechanics being used.

You are right - in theory.

In reality players tend to leave nerfed mechanics for dead and just dont touch it anymore - like ES. No new ES build around after nerf I´m aware of. Not one.
Players will resort to builds, that will work no matter what and thats indirect dmg dealing.
So totem, minions, mines and traps are going to have a field day early next league.

Once streamers (not players) established a new meta, regular players might consider running those builds - if they look fun enough and can be funded. If not, they might as well quit early and leave a ghost town behind, just like Harbinger.


So yes I hope you are right, but its nowhere near being a guaranteed thing to happen and might well turn into the opposite.

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Draegnarrr написал:

They killed diversity on the baron too, by making it rare AF -_- I loved mine in legacy league then they made it super rare and every hipster SRS cheesemo came out of the woodwork to make it unattainable again.

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TrichocereusSP написал:

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Draegnarrr написал:

They killed diversity on the baron too, by making it rare AF -_- I loved mine in legacy league then they made it super rare and every hipster SRS cheesemo came out of the woodwork to make it unattainable again.

+1

The decision to make is super rare was not good at all. At least could have nerfed retroactively instead of making it very rare.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Twisted logic you have. Roughly 40% of all characters across all leagues were using VP. That means that VP players were the MINORITY with roughly 60% of players NOT playing VP.

If it were as good as you claim with your little example, then I'd expect numbers with at least 70% playing VP.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

Also, sugar then just gets replaced by artificial sweeteners which are far more addictive. That's why foods these days get blasted with sweeteners, so you consume more and get even fatter. That's basically what's happening here as well.

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

When people gather and converse about knowlegde they do not possess, yet pretend to possess, then incite arguments after being confronted to face the truth but don't listen, only surround themselves with more words of false wisdom, trying to escape the fear of looking stupid and defeated.

That, my friend, is the true nature of idiots.

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Xavathos написал:

I take offense to that, sir! I for one was enjoying ES like never before after the nerf.
Because you see, when things are popular, there is a price to be paid as well. All things "meta" will cost you an arm and a leg. That's pretty obvious.

You wouldn't believe how cheap my gear was for my ES build this league. It was so cheap I felt like I was scamming people when buying it. And you know what? It's still extremely strong. Do I have 15k ES still now? Nope, 9k, but it's more than enough to do everything I could do with 15k before as well. I just have to pull back a little earlier in nasty situations and regenerate my ES, but other than that, no deaths, no problems.

Just because people THINK they know something is shit now, because it was 100% before and it is now 70%, doesn't mean it's actually bad at all. Things are rebalanced because they are found to be overpowered. So instead, you could look at it like it was 130% and is now 100%. Suddenly it doesn't seem so bad, right?

Who knows, maybe the new VP will still turn out to be an auto include in every build, because of some combination of gear or whatever that someone finds that turns out to be OP. Slayer in its current form is an obvious example.

What I mean is, open up your mind to other possibilities. Change is not scary, it's good. Treat the game as if it's the first time you're playing it when 3.1 launches. Because judging from the past major expansion launches on PoE, 3.1 will be like a whoooole new game.

If you think I'm wrong, I invite you to try out an ES build in standard or if you have currency in Harbinger, try it there. You'll see what I mean. ES is fine, even after the nerf, which in my opinion was far too harsh. Despite that, it's still viable. Only goes to show just how broken it once was...

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CaptainWARLORD написал:

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Xavathos написал:

Sorry guys, but I'm with the proclaimed mental patient here. I don't understand how the logic of VP = diversity calculates in your minds, because all I see is a one way street with instant leech. Your LEECH build either has it, or it doesn't.

If it has it, viable/OP. If it doesn't, not viable or struggle, unless Slayer.

How is that good for diversity exactly? Without VP, people will be forced to look elsewhere to make their builds viable. Which means a MORE DIVERSE list of builds and mechanics being used. Be it in the form of hybrid ES/Life, regen over leech, combination of both, high evasion, dodge, spelldodge, block, spellblock, armour, charges, fortify, certain uniques that nobody ever used because life and damage is all that mattered with instant leech.

No. I'm totally with BaKouneT. He's making more sense than all of you combined.

My, oh my, the virus has spread already.

Here's one for ya:

If I craft a build like my Cast on Ignite Elementalist, which does not have 100% Leech like Berserker, then I need VP because the rest of my nodes go into Life and damage passives. I even dual-wielded Razor of the Seventh Sun, so I could stay alive even in T16 maps.

If you have ever played any CWDT build ever (Life based, I mean), then you will know exactly what I'm talking about. The change to VP killed that build as well, because it was already hard enough to stay alive with no innate Leech and even more nerfs to Curses against bosses.

Then we have Baron Summoners, where some of us liked to take VP so we get instant Leech from Zombies, coupled with our Block to make up for the lack of Armour. Now that VP got changed, with no Life Regeneration, you killed that side as well.

Diversity. I don't think it means what you think it means.

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relithh написал:

why is there even a discussion ? everything that is fun will get killed. thats how this game works. do not invest in anything.

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kshuxxx написал:

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NessOnett8 написал:

Can we just appreciate for a moment the irony of a guy saying "All my builds were centered around abusing this one single mechanic, but with that gone, where is the build diversity?"

This is why I'm glad ACTUAL game designers are in charge of balance and not people like you. It doesn't take MUCH of a brain to see that One-shots being common were BECAUSE of VP existing, not the other way around.

Yes, one-shots will always exist. But without VP they will be reserved for select boss fights(unless your build is straight up garbage), and you won't have to worry about the random crit frog or whatever BS you're talking about. So, I guess by defending VP, you're in favor of every frog potentially one-shotting you? Because that is LITERALLY the argument you're making. They can't fix this problem without fixing VP first, or it would go back to trivializing everything like what happened when VP first came out.

Fun fact: before VP existed, this problem you're referring to didn't exist. And the game ran like that for years. Odd that VP would be introduced to solve a problem that DIDN'T EXIST as you're alleging...that seems fairly unlikely.

You must be new to poe , all that you said has no logic , i never stated VP was good , its not good even now , designing a game around leech its bad as you just go full hp nodes as your only defense.
And if u dont understand from the new bs shaped items we will again get power creep ,and no monster damage balance.
This game is slowly becoming more and more of a glass cannon design , kill before you get killed.
The defense mechanics armour , evasion,dodge , block , spell block become more useless with every patch.
To bring back more build into meta they should cut monster damage by 5 times and cut player damage by 100 times , maybe then meta will change.