VP was never the problem

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Char1983 написал:

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Nephalim написал:

Damage spikes are the only way ggg knows how to threaten the player with death.
GGG needs and wants players to die in order to extend their play time but players want to face roll game content.

It is hard to say where the middle ground is.

A lot of players don't actually want to faceroll content.

If I have the choice between faceroll with instant deaths, and non-faceroll with tactical gameplay, I certainly choose the latter.

The problem is that the latter doesn't really work in PoE. You get non-faceroll mediocrely tactical gameplay that still oneshots you out of the blue every once in a while, and you still die to technical problems (disconnect, lag). Furthermore, you clear three times slower, so you earn three times less currency per time (at least, since item values deteriorate over time). So you can make less builds, because builds require currency, and some of them require retarded amounts of it. My last build I made in Standard simply because there is no way I can do it on league (it requires Acuities).

I would say the vast majority of players want to face roll content and find good loot after a hard day's of work. I don't know why people perpetuate the idea that poe is a skill based hardcore game that should require quick reflexes and constant thought on your ridiculous alt f4 macro. If you want to be hardcore, play hardcore mode.

The majority of things you listed are event bosses, instant leech has little to do with them because the vast majority of their attacks will one shot you anyways. You are also not likely going to gain any exp anyways if youre running uber atziri or shaper non stop so the need to survive through VP is even less crucial.

Instant leech is crucial for steam rolling trash content that intermittently spikes for most of your life. GGG is destroying the game because they can't stand players being able to clear maps quickly and advance to level 100 because this directly reduces their profit margins from mtx sales.

Get rid of enemy crits. There I fixed the game.

RNG damage. WTF

Also get rid of Life Leech altogether. So long as players want high damage (which is always) then LL will be a problem. I predict a few patches from now: All life leech halved twice to 0.0003%, VP restores life over 2 hours. Oh, and all monster damage doubled, because this game needs to be more hardkor.

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Nephalim написал:

I would say the vast majority of players want to face roll content and find good loot after a hard day's of work. I don't know why people perpetuate the idea that poe is a skill based hardcore game that should require quick reflexes and constant thought on your ridiculous alt f4 macro. If you want to be hardcore, play hardcore mode.

HC just amplifies the problem. The game damage / leech design at the moment really makes me never ever play HC.

I want the game to require skillfull gameplay. Why do I perpetuate that idea? Because that is what I am looking for, simple as that. So the more PoE goes into that direction, the better. It has nothing to do with "hardcore" or "not hardcore", I don't even know what that shall mean in a SC environment.

I do not want skillful Alt+F4 logout bullshit though, which is why I don't use it.

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Nephalim написал:

Instant leech is crucial for steam rolling trash content that intermittently spikes for most of your life. GGG is destroying the game because they can't stand players being able to clear maps quickly and advance to level 100 because this directly reduces their profit margins from mtx sales.

Highly doubt that MTX sale connection, but whatever. I do not want to steam roll trash content with intermittent spike damage, which is why i am very happy to see the change to Vaal Pact. I hope they re-balance the rest of the game accordingly, to make it less one-shotty. And more skill based.

One can dream, no? :)

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Char1983 написал:

Highly doubt that MTX sale connection, but whatever. I do not want to steam roll trash content with intermittent spike damage, which is why i am very happy to see the change to Vaal Pact. I hope they re-balance the rest of the game accordingly, to make it less one-shotty. And more skill based.

One can dream, no? :)

Don't we all. and if it turns out GGG cripples players defenses/offenses further AND destroys VP with no compensation? Are you any closer to your desire to have a poe that is skillful?

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InAshesTheyShallReap написал:

i can tank 3-4 minotaur attacks if the map does not have extra dmg:
6,5k ES BOW no armor, no evasion, no instant leech, 1,6% leech.

by the time minotaur attacks me 1 more time, i can recover about 3-4k es while i get hit for about 4k es

with 50% more leech from new vaal pact is going to be easy.

but so many times i get oneshotted from beyond bosses or if the map boss has lot of extra dmg.


current leech is well enough for ES and i believe even for life, just the remaining ES players alive has allready learnt to survive the nerf hammer of 3.0 and realized leech is not the problem

even life players will realize instant leech won't be the end of the world, you even have pots...


the problem is monster dmg, or by my side, 6,5k ES on bow or 8,5k with shield with all legacy gear is a joke to get oneshotted so easily.

untill oneshot mechanic exists even when you sacrifice a bit of damage for defence, kill before get hit will always be the best way to play this game, this is why dps is always the better choice than defence, strategy and player skill will never matter anything

This guy has it right.
Regardless of your defense, if you get whacked by a 1 million damage shot you're dead. Yeah, most are telegraphed. But many of those telegraphs are buried under other crap or while you're across the screen dealing with adds. One shots dealing 100x your max EHP is pure 'I got bullied in school but now I have the power to make everyone suffer!'

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ignatius_reilly написал:

Diablo 3 for all it's problems, has exceptionally well balanced monster damage. At the hardest difficulties (GRs) the damage you take is very threatening but not to the point it's ridiculous. The fights are exciting because you're always on the verge of death if you're really pushing things. There is a real ebb and flow to combat, with moments of safety intermixed with moments of stress.

You probably didn't played it when we were litteraly stuck in A1 farming little treasure gnome in a house basement for days coz we were insta one shot in A2 despite the 20 years experience of Blizzard in ARPG when the game came out.

No I did. They made it better. It's one of the reasons I appreciate it so much. The improvement was huge.

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BaKouneT написал:

You probably didn't played it when we were litteraly stuck in A1 farming little treasure gnome in a house basement for days

That was because drop rate was absurt low to non existent... nothing with balance of monster health to do with it. Took weeks and good group to even pass act 1 on hardcore for me.

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Char1983 написал:

But thinking back, which fights do I remember as being fun and enjoyable in PoE?

- first Atziri attempt (I ripped hard)
- first time I killed Atziri (tactical fight, didn't have the DPS to boost her down)
- first time I killed Uber Atziri
- last few Uber Atziri attempts (I didn't actually kill her :()
- that day when a Haast spawned in a Underground River and we had to play tactically to get it down, because of hard map mods (and us being not very well geared)
- first few Shaper attempts
- first few Shaper kills
- Abaxoth, several of them
- Malachai and Core Malachai
- Several lab runs

Those are all boss fights. Boss fights can be slow and tactical. Their big hits are telegraphed, you can avoid it, you can spend few minutes in there if that's what you want to do.

But mapping for xp - is fast and furious. Should I spend my time tactically avoiding trash and blue mobs? And doing that for every single pack for thousands of maps? If that's what game is going to become, holy shit I'm gonna uninstall so fast. It's time to remove reflect and idiotic burst damage.

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Saltychipmunk написал:

"Not that good"? no..... are you serious..... . what the fuck? who are you trying to fool with that complete lie.

people give 20+ passives points in some cases because vp is THAT good. Holy shit.

yeah, because there are no other good nodes on the way there right?

also, you know who spends 20 points for VP?

berserkers, I'll let you figure out the rest

and no it's not THAT good as to force you into taking it every single time

in fact according to statistics there are more builds not running VP than there are running VP above 90.

so while yeah, it is a great keystone, it's not THAT good.

people are comparing it to ES, but really way more builds were CI/LL then there are VP builds.

i'M not even necessarily saying it doesn't need nerfs to be perfectly honest.

but fixing a symptom before the illness is never a good thing. so let's hope there are some changes in 3.1 to account for the VP nerfs.

if reflect stays as it is basically every single selfcast/atack build will either be duelist or elementalist ascendant otherwise they'Ll just die to reflect every time.