Feedback from a PoE player who started playing D3 again

To be honest, reading the thread doesn't convince me.

You say that it's likely to roll an upgrade but what I see is that instead of exalting your items you upgraded most of them by replacing them.

And you just said that you got lucky with your shield so..

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Startkabels написал:

To be honest, reading the thread doesn't convince me.

You say that it's likely to roll an upgrade but what I see is that instead of exalting your items you upgraded most of them by replacing them.

And you just said that you got lucky with your shield so..

I got "somewhat" lucky, it could have been worse, but it could have been better also.
There are items that are worth exalting because the odds are in your favor, other items are just about playing russian roulette basically, that's why I changed the other ones.
I changed 2 items and double exalted the other one, and this double exalt was probably the most efficient of those ( and also the easiest/cheapest for this ).

So of course, it's more interesting to keep exalts as currency, but there are many items are are exalt worthy, and when you need an upgrade, are just asking for that, that's just my point here =).

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allbusiness написал:

Because the game has serious potential but keeps getting led astray simply due to a combination of poor balance testing, bad design choices, and people putting bad ideas in GGG's heads.

Game is not 'challenging.' Challenging would mean that the player has a fair chance of actually beating the game through skill with minimal to no gear checks. That is clearly not the case in Path of Exile. It is 80% gear check, 20% skill (or really knowledge of mechanics).

It's AN ITEM BASED GAME! In a game where items are extras to help your skill then sure, you have a point. But when the game centers around the items it makes no sense to make them worthless, in fact, seems to make sense to make them more important.

Furthermore, the gear required to get to a level where you can complete content is not impossible, doing the harder content which is also harder to get into, requires good gear. How many people have done well in these 1 week races? Are you putting blinders up to make these claims?

Seriously, how many things are you going to ignore to get a weak point across?

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People 'reroll' all the time? What? Maybe the absurdly rich players reroll, but not everyone can afford to bank roll multiple characters that are capable of doing end game, especially when some of the more interesting builds cost several worth exalts.

I'm far from "absurdly rich" and I reroll often. Even more so, I was rerolling when I probably had 5-10 exalts in worth, orbs and gear, 6+ months after OB even when wealth was pretty easy to come by in standard. I'm not alone either, many people on my friendlist were doing the same and how active trade is in standard, as when leagues are going it's 2nd/3rd most popular league, others are rerolling often as well. Either rerolling or we have a neverending supply of new people coming in buying leveling gear. I might get 10 low lvl uniques but somehow I always manage to find buyers.

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And gating content after content behind RNG is piss poor design. It leaves mostly everything to chance and time investment, neither which is a determinant of skill. There's a reason why people prefer playing certain kinds of poker, because in certain types of poker, skill is highly valued and luck is minimized greatly.

Name these forms of poker. I've played most and have hours upon days invested in to some of the lesser played (rather older) ones. Skill is probably 60% of poker, the other 40% is purely luck but if you play well you can make a living. Did you know that a successful player, one that would be considered professional, playing cash games is generally making 1 big blind an hour? The stakes are generally between 5/10 up to 50/100. This means someone is putting up $100k, risking losing it all for the hope that he makes $100/hour. And you're complaining (and dare to compare) bad RNG in a game that's only a time investment? You lost 8 hours, a poker player might lose 8 hours and 1 million dollars.

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I just don't understand how you can say that people would get bored with the game if there is so much apparent build variety if you allowed people to get more drops. It pretty makes 0 sense. If you are so sure that Path of Exile has tons of build variety (which I'd argue it doesn't) then you shouldn't have a problem increasing the drop rate, as at the very minimum people have potential to roll 20+ characters (at least if the build variety is truly there).

I'm not saying everyone will get bored, I'm saying I will and people like me flock to games like POE so I feel I'm in the company of like minded thinkers.

Open up my profile. I have 9 builds over level 80, every single one of them has been at least 2 completely different builds. Most I started 1-60/70 then dumped (I try odd builds, failure rate is high) then respec either through regrets or patch free respecs. The toon "Moosifer" for example has been 4-5 different builds. There's also the 5-7 builds I did in CB and the 7-10 I've done in alpha. Every single one different, I've personally done 50-75 unique builds, the only cookie cutter ones I've done are sporker, summoner and GSer (my first CB week race, but did it as a duelist). I will admit I did builds that became cookie cutter but I didn't look the build up nor did I release it to be popular (In all fairness how hard was it to see lioneyes getting popular when OB hit).

How the fuck is this not a large variety? One person pushing almost 100 unique builds, avoiding FotM. That isn't enough variety for you? Oh, and almost everyone could handle at least low level maps. None were godly geared.

My best geared toon is the 91 scion which probably has under 50 ex worth of gear, although that's not considering the price of saffells now that they have been nerfed, I got mine for 5 chaos.

Now has for upping drop rates, I'm with you to a point. Would I complain, probably not. Will you guys be happy if they are, fuck no. From the complaints it's not a mild improvement, you guys want the wealth packs from CB, one white mob and the screen explodes with godly gear. Or you want constant progression which doesn't work here because the gear isn't vanilla like D3, "I need str and vit, this one has 50 and 75, this new one has 53 and 81, IMPROVEMENT!" There's a give and take with all gear. The funny part is, as again Rhys has pointed out recently, they have improved item generation, especially while leveling, greatly since OB. The addition of exiles, which is a loot explosion which can happen many times while leveling, similar to the old large chests but you have to work for it. Shrines, larger packs than normal, therefore more loot. Also the new addition of the boxes in ambush. There's also certain bosses dropping more loot, map size increase and upping the drop rate with IIQ removal.

NONE OF WHICH HAS MADE ANY IMPACT IN THE COMPLAINING! Honestly, you have to be kidding me! "We want more loot!' 'Ok, here's a way to get more' 'Not good enough, more' 'Ok, how about this' 'You guys can't get anything right, I can't get any loot'" It's, as I've said probably a million times in this forum, unreasonable. They give more and you constantly want more. How about we just put 6ls in the vendor, or are you going to complain you can't get the colors on it in under 5 chroms?

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In Ambush league for instance, plenty of people reroll because getting items/currency isn't dumb as fuck. There's such a massive amount of currency flowing around nearly everyone is capable of affording most things, unless it's a BiS item. And yet, people run like the same 6-8 optimal builds, especially when you start getting into higher level maps.

You mean people will choose the builds that are the strongest at the moment rather than experimenting? Who would have guessed.

Do you think Ambush is meant to be a cock tease? 4 months of pleasure of finding good shit to have it ripped away and buried. No, GGG released it, like the previous 2 4 month leagues, to see how it works in general gameplay. If people like it, it improves the game, then they will add it, like exiles, nemesis mods and shrines.

How about rather than making general complaints, give SPECIFIC feedback on ambush (or invasion) so when they are considering adding to the main game they can make adjustments that everyone will enjoy. THIS IS YOUR TIME TO HELP RATHER THAN JUST BITCH! Go be productive or go play another game and let us enjoy POE.

Big Osgwald style rant going into all directions:

@Moosifer: Calm down man, jesus

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raics написал:

You know, Moose, I'm a standard player, too. You could say I'm here for a fairly long time, maps got boring, grind got boring, racing got boring... PvP, trading and partying were never even fun. What still has me here is rerolling and testing various stuff, that's my lasting appeal in this game.

No matter how much the rest of D3 is unappealing to me, I think their new self-found moniker is a good decision, if the average speed of gear acquiring with finding it versus finding currency and trading for it is the same - what's the difference? Well nothing much, except the former has one annoyance less and no shortcuts that trading hubs are. GGG tauts 'community' bonds as a reason for encouraging trading but it rings pretty hollow to me, how many bonds in this game have you formed through trading? Probably close to none.

I've seen a lot of people leave the game, and I can assure you very, very, few of them did it because they got all the best gear they could and there was nothing more to aim for. People rarely leave this game satisfied with it, they leave when they become so sick of it for this reason or the other that they can't stand another minute of it, I mentioned that a couple of times and I sure don't consider it a good thing.

I have about 90 people on my friendlist, 3 are IRL friends (one is my current roommate, another is a former) just about all of the rest were people I did trades with. The few who aren't were guys like panda, fayded and DDT who I did a couple 1 week races with and taught me the game. Then the people I helped out. Since the end of CB I shut down though, generally I'm not a social guy so any friends since OB have come from people I've meant in feedback like Dragon585.

While I play 90% solo, generally I hate playing in groups and refuse to party with more than 2 other people, I hate not being able to trade. I enjoy trying different, very odd combinations often and it's just never possible self found.

I've gotten bored with maps, I fucking despise leveling but testing out a random idea would keep me up at night...literally.

I can understand why people would enjoy it and I see in the fun in it. I really have nothing against D3, honestly. My problems were when it first came out being considered the next game of the diablo series was a fucking lie, nevermind when I played it was basically a beta I payed $60 for. But even with the insane difficulty, absolutely mind numbing trade process (fucking hours on the AH looking for a 1% upgrade I could afford) and the sheer amount of grinding for almost no improvement, I just had it with the game. Doing act 3 inferno runs, pre-nerf falling asleep on my keyboard.

But, they seemed to have learned from their mistakes. Rather than making some strange hybrid between casual and HC player focused game they've gone with casual gamers, and it seems they've done a good job. I have no issues with games like Madden, CoD or even shit like Halo, personally I cannot get into them for more than a few hours, some quick mindless fun but I get bored of them before I even finish. Shit, I remember loving Skyrim but after a week playing it I haven't touched it since, never finished the game. I'll enjoy playing freecell for 8 hours at work over most of these games marketed to casuals, they just do nothing for me.

But, if people like it so be it, just not my thing.

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Startkabels написал:

@Moosifer: Calm down man, jesus

I'm not upset, caps was just for emphasis, not for screaming. I'm pretty calm. If this was a few hours ago after my 2/10 losing streak on hearthstone I'd be getting put on probation but I'm fine.

...although I am on the verge of spamming your thread now with 3 posts in under a half hour. Seems like a good time for a smoke break and to check reddit again.

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Ozgwald написал:

In fact I dare to say: the tree would probably be better off if no life or energy shield would be part of it. I find it an archaic idea from when choice between damage and survive-ability mattered, something that became redundant with reflect mechanics and over-tuning bosses. It is what people experience as the false choice of the tree. You could also add more life clusters all over the tree. Yeah there will be op tanky builds, but it also would open new paths and new builds.

Funny that you say this. I've posted this suggested before.

It might be good for build variety to take core stats out of the passive tree and put them in a separate part of the game instead, just like it was (for example) in Diablo 2.

At least, players would have more freedom in the passive tree this way, although I cannot oversee what other unwanted consequences this might have.

If any, this would be a change that would probably have a huge impact on the game.

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Startkabels написал:

Funny that you say this. I've posted this suggested before.

It might be good for build variety to take core stats out of the passive tree and put them in a separate part of the game instead, just like it was (for example) in Diablo 2.

At least, players would have more freedom in the passive tree this way, although I cannot oversee what other unwanted consequences this might have.

If any, this would be a change that would probably have a huge impact on the game.

I think I've suggested changes with this as well (which they've taken steps towards) but basically if defense is required, even in SC, in heavy amounts, why aren't they comboed with other things. Who is not choosing life over armor? Why should they be separate? I'd also be much more willing to get weapon specific passives if they had an EHP benefit. Personally anything more general than 1h/2h I avoid so my build stays flexible, but stuff like the dagger/life passives added recently have me second guessing this. Ultimately I still don't get them as the EHP requirement is harder to make than my DPS one, but it's a step in the right direction at least.

Yes I realize you're right, GGG did add HP to certain offensive nodes I believe.

Indeed this is a good step, I would like to see more of these changes.

So to keep the discussion going, GGG can improve build variety by making sure players have more freedom in the passive tree with more changes like this. Spreading core stats around the tree to avoid superior routes down the tree but rather have multiple viable routes instead.

That still leaves me with my concern about finding my upgrades. From my experience with the game I know that this starts to get cumbersome somewhere in the later acts of cruel.

I understand that this is no problem for people who like or don't mind trading a lot, or find lots of orbs by spending a lot of time.
For me, being a player with only a couple of hours per week available and as somebody who prefers crafting over trading, the crafting system is not satisfying.

Any suggestions?