Feedback from a PoE player who started playing D3 again
What I got from your post:
"
Startkabels написал:
Now playing though Act 1 in D3, I was finding upgrades all the time. And after a couple of quest I upgraded even more by crafting.
So basically, upgrading in D3 feels fantastic compared to upgrading in PoE, knowing that the auction house will soon be removed from D3.
A nice additional improvement is an extra artisan to replace mods and the looks of your items in D3.
Aka: Hey guys in D3 I find good items without much effort! Please make PoE more casual friendly so I can compete with those players who play 8+h a day.
"
Startkabels написал:
They are rather making sure that you are getting your upgrades by playing the game instead of buying items in my opinion.
By removing trading from the game, they have to do that.
But here are some things to keep in mind:
1) Removing trading removes an important part of the game and also a social aspect.
2) Items in D3 are babby design and thus easy to generate for your character. This is NOT possible in PoE because of deeper mechanics which cannot give you drops only you need.
3) Finding items easier makes you play the game less, Arpgs are about grinding and luck, you should really understand this. It would kill the longevity of the game.
4) Getting better gear all the time would kill the economy. Look at Ambush atm, they have crazy amounts of maps etc, thanks to strongboxes.
On Build diversity
"
Startkabels написал:
Again, Blizzard is just making it more convenient for the players.
Aka: Making the game shitty casual shit.
Don't forget PoE was designed for HC players, if you don't want that, play D3.
"
Startkabels написал:
Why would you keep 1 tab full of skill gems and support gems in your stash or have to go through all the micro management of getting those links, sockets and socket-colors?
Because it makes the game deep and fun, while "hurr durr I just click this and now I am a different character" makes the game cheap and shit.
"
Startkabels написал:
One of the reasons it sucks it because it is nearly unnecessary micro management.
I think you think it sucks because it is not casual friendly.
If you think the tree sucks then I don't understand why you ever played PoE. The tree is the main attraction. It's like going to a zoo and complaining about all the animals there.
Also your comment about "there are only a few good paths on the tree" is utter bullshit. And shows that you have not played enough to understand that there are many many different ways
to build even if it is the same character.
Alone when it comes to PVP builds there are a lot of cool things to do.
"
Startkabels написал:
I think upgrading main stats and obvious character elements like skills works a lot better in D3, where the game takes care of the micro management via targeted drops and auto leveling main stats and skills while you can manually raise main stats without cap by spending endless paragon points in end game and boosting skills with runes and mods on gear.
Aka: I think making the game easy and casual appeals to me because I am a casual gamer.
"
Startkabels написал:
So for me, D3 feel liberating. I don't have to worry about any path in a passive tree and that I can't get my vitality for example. My skills and my main stats are independent stats which can both be boosted by gear.
Aka: For me D3 feels liberating, it liberates me from using my brain and I can just goof off and do a bazillion damage to monsters with quazillion HP and find items with higher numbers YAY!
"
Startkabels написал:
Maybe an open door but the gameplay in D3 feels really superior over PoE. Your character feels powerful form the start while in PoE your character feels a bit like a moron in the start.
Aka: I hate RPGs, I want a powerful character right from the start and not build one. I mean it's not like RPGs should be about creating a powerful character in the first place, they should be more like fighting games and big numbers!
"
Startkabels написал:
The cut scenes, the voice acting, the story, the environment, the maps, the skills and their effect, the responsiveness of the game. What a relief....
Fun Fact:
The story is shit.
The VA annoying as fuck (especially the templars infinite fucking talking and all the bosses)
The environment is streamlined and has no variance it is like walking through a premade path.
I agree on Cut Scenes and Responsiveness. but that is what you get from a AAA game. But still it is a fucking shitty game.
@Startkabels : (micro) management is basically what makes the game interesting ... if you remove that, you would end up having a dumb game for casual (assisted?) players.
Path of exile clearly does not seem the be a game that suits you tbh, its hardcore dimension seem to go against what you want, you probably just should keep playing D3.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
@Startkabels : (micro) management is basically what makes the game interesting ... if you remove that, you would end up having a dumb game for casual (assisted?) players.
I would be careful here, usually rotations in D3 are more complicated than typical PoE end-game one-button wonders aka "press button until it dies" ;)
People in standard reroll or make new characters all the time. It's the test bed to make new characters because the abundant amount of items out there at relatively low cost. Only the premium top end items are out of this world expensive.
In Invasion/HC/Nemesis, etc. people literally play one character the whole time unless they die.
Exactly this.
I know people in standard that respec pretty much every other day because they're constantly trying to find new builds for their new GG gear. It's acknowledged as the testing ground for pretty much anything because there's legacy and ultra high end items abound.
The problem is that standard is also different from D2, where all the best top, high end BiS items were pretty much duped to oblivion. In standard, the very best high end items are so rare and so expensive that typically only those players with other super high end items that they can charge mirror fees for can afford. So in other words, it's exactly the opposite of D2, where you can fully deck out a character for cheap.
In other words, you don't see it as the same thing as D2's "legacy" because you're jealous other people have shiny things you don't.
Seriously. That's the only reason for you to think that way.
You admit that getting very, very good gear for trade in Standard is very, very easy. You acknowledge this makes it a testing ground for new builds. But there's no instant-gratification duping cheat button, so now you have a problem.
Zero sympathy from me.
That's a really good way to come off as a complete jackass. That is not what UnderOmerta is saying at all. What he's saying is that inadvertently Diablo 2's duping/botting 'problem' flooded the market with items making it accessible to anyone to constantly reroll characters, even in HC. Only the truly BiS items costed a fortune, and those were not by any means necessary to faceroll the game. A Javazon with absolute trash other than a Titans Revege could faceroll the game, as could a Hammerdin with simply an absolute garbage Enigma setup.
"
Fruz написал:
@Startkabels : (micro) management is basically what makes the game interesting ... if you remove that, you would end up having a dumb game for casual (assisted?) players.
Path of exile clearly does not seem the be a game that suits you tbh, its hardcore dimension seem to go against what you want, you probably just should keep playing D3.
There's alot more micro in Diablo 3 then you would think.
Последняя редакция: allbusiness#6050. Время: 17 мар. 2014 г., 07:11:52
@Startkabels : (micro) management is basically what makes the game interesting ... if you remove that, you would end up having a dumb game for casual (assisted?) players.
I would be careful here, usually rotations in D3 are more complicated than typical PoE end-game one-button wonders aka "press button until it dies" ;)
I havn't played D3 tbh.
Maybe micro management is not the right label here ( that's why I used brackets for micro in the previous post ) and has been miss-used.
What I meant is : managing all the resources PoE is giving to build a character is what makes the game interesting, managing skill gems is one of those things.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Последняя редакция: Fruz#6137. Время: 17 мар. 2014 г., 07:14:30
Now playing though Act 1 in D3, I was finding upgrades all the time. And after a couple of quest I upgraded even more by crafting.
So basically, upgrading in D3 feels fantastic compared to upgrading in PoE, knowing that the auction house will soon be removed from D3.
A nice additional improvement is an extra artisan to replace mods and the looks of your items in D3.
Aka: Hey guys in D3 I find good items without much effort! Please make PoE more casual friendly so I can compete with those players who play 8+h a day.
"
Startkabels написал:
They are rather making sure that you are getting your upgrades by playing the game instead of buying items in my opinion.
By removing trading from the game, they have to do that.
But here are some things to keep in mind:
1) Removing trading removes an important part of the game and also a social aspect.
2) Items in D3 are babby design and thus easy to generate for your character. This is NOT possible in PoE because of deeper mechanics which cannot give you drops only you need.
3) Finding items easier makes you play the game less, Arpgs are about grinding and luck, you should really understand this. It would kill the longevity of the game.
4) Getting better gear all the time would kill the economy. Look at Ambush atm, they have crazy amounts of maps etc, thanks to strongboxes.
On Build diversity
"
Startkabels написал:
Again, Blizzard is just making it more convenient for the players.
Aka: Making the game shitty casual shit.
Don't forget PoE was designed for HC players, if you don't want that, play D3.
"
Startkabels написал:
Why would you keep 1 tab full of skill gems and support gems in your stash or have to go through all the micro management of getting those links, sockets and socket-colors?
Because it makes the game deep and fun, while "hurr durr I just click this and now I am a different character" makes the game cheap and shit.
"
Startkabels написал:
One of the reasons it sucks it because it is nearly unnecessary micro management.
I think you think it sucks because it is not casual friendly.
If you think the tree sucks then I don't understand why you ever played PoE. The tree is the main attraction. It's like going to a zoo and complaining about all the animals there.
Also your comment about "there are only a few good paths on the tree" is utter bullshit. And shows that you have not played enough to understand that there are many many different ways
to build even if it is the same character.
Alone when it comes to PVP builds there are a lot of cool things to do.
"
Startkabels написал:
I think upgrading main stats and obvious character elements like skills works a lot better in D3, where the game takes care of the micro management via targeted drops and auto leveling main stats and skills while you can manually raise main stats without cap by spending endless paragon points in end game and boosting skills with runes and mods on gear.
Aka: I think making the game easy and casual appeals to me because I am a casual gamer.
"
Startkabels написал:
So for me, D3 feel liberating. I don't have to worry about any path in a passive tree and that I can't get my vitality for example. My skills and my main stats are independent stats which can both be boosted by gear.
Aka: For me D3 feels liberating, it liberates me from using my brain and I can just goof off and do a bazillion damage to monsters with quazillion HP and find items with higher numbers YAY!
"
Startkabels написал:
Maybe an open door but the gameplay in D3 feels really superior over PoE. Your character feels powerful form the start while in PoE your character feels a bit like a moron in the start.
Aka: I hate RPGs, I want a powerful character right from the start and not build one. I mean it's not like RPGs should be about creating a powerful character in the first place, they should be more like fighting games and big numbers!
"
Startkabels написал:
The cut scenes, the voice acting, the story, the environment, the maps, the skills and their effect, the responsiveness of the game. What a relief....
Fun Fact:
The story is shit.
The VA annoying as fuck (especially the templars infinite fucking talking and all the bosses)
The environment is streamlined and has no variance it is like walking through a premade path.
I agree on Cut Scenes and Responsiveness. but that is what you get from a AAA game. But still it is a fucking shitty game.
Because clearly you can just go 1-60 and just do T6 just straight off of gear you find. Oh wait.
And trading social? 99% of the players here utilize POE XYZ which is an auction house in itself. You may have some loose bartering, but no barters for more than a few chaos more than the item is really worth. Why? Because XYZ also double checks as a price check mechanism.
You can make a game more streamlined while still maintaining the 'hardcore' nature of the game (which really isn't even all that hardcore). Dark Souls 2 is a very good example of this, despite the massively fucked up hitboxes in that game.
ARPGs are not about grinding and luck. ARPGs are about progression and killing mobs to progress. Path of Exile's progression massively sucks a left sweaty nut, especially when you reach early maps.
Последняя редакция: allbusiness#6050. Время: 17 мар. 2014 г., 07:15:50
Why would you keep 1 tab full of skill gems and support gems in your stash or have to go through all the micro management of getting those links, sockets and socket-colors?
Because it makes the game deep and fun.
I thought so for a long time too, now I think it's just an annoying mechanics without a real purpose. That's especially so if building a bit off-key, it hinders you far more than it helps/makes-the-game-fun/makes-sense, and cuts down your options, hell, even if you build a cookiecutter you might have problems, for instance with projectile spell setups in ES gear.
What I'd like to see isn't a hard restriction, socket color could provide some kind of a bonus instead if you match it with the gem, so you'd still be rewarded to align it instead of severely restricted if you don't.
See the way it hinders corrupting items? Not many players are ready to lock an item onto a specific gem combo so they mostly corrupt jewelry and belts.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
What I'd like to see isn't a hard restriction, socket color could provide some kind of a bonus instead if you match it with the gem, so you'd still be rewarded to align it instead of severely restricted if you don't.
Just wanted to say, I think that's one heck of a good idea.
Perhaps instead of a bonus make it a penalty though, like -1 gem level or quality doesn't apply. You could socket truly important gems in their right color but leave other ones in off-color sockets. To get a BiS item you'd still need exactly the right sockets.
My vision for a better PoE: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/863780
Because clearly you can just go 1-60 and just do T6 just straight off of gear you find. Oh wait.
I find the whole T system completely retarded and pointless.
Why do I even want to play on it? There is nothing to do in that game.
As soon as you cannot sell your items there will be no point in acquiring better items anymore.
I played d3 HC on expert over the weekend and facerolled the content without any problems. Even master wasn't much harder just more annoying which is why I gave up. The game just feels pointless and I really have no intention to play harder content to find gear which is useless anyways.
"
allbusiness написал:
And trading social? 99% of the players here utilize POE XYZ which is an auction house in itself. You may have some loose bartering, but no barters for more than a few chaos more than the item is really worth. Why? Because XYZ also double checks as a price check mechanism.
It is about community. Because PoE has a bartering system you have to up to date on prices, exchange rates and who has what and how to get it.
Yeah people use XYZ to find items, you still have to contact the seller though. And you don't have to sell or buy, you can always wait and find a new buyer or seller. It's interesting if you are into economics because it is a dynamic system and brings a lot of joy to those who want to enjoy it.
Systems like XYZ are also a perfect product of the community, same as poe trade chat webside, or the currency exchange one. It's a fun and social aspect because the community works on it.
You don't have that on D3, you don't have a trade chat or get into contact with the people who sell the items, you don't know who has the most wealth and so on.
"
allbusiness написал:
You can make a game more streamlined while still maintaining the 'hardcore' nature of the game (which really isn't even all that hardcore). Dark Souls 2 is a very good example of this, despite the massively fucked up hitboxes in that game.
Read the post about hardcore a couple of pages ago, about investment, to understand what HC means.
Hardcore is not just gameplay but also mechanics and systems, knowledge and commitment.
"
allbusiness написал:
ARPGs are not about grinding and luck. ARPGs are about progression and killing mobs to progress. Path of Exile's progression massively sucks a left sweaty nut, especially when you reach early maps.
BS. With the right knowledge you can make characters work even without good luck.
If you understand trading and the economy you can become super rich and get your gear this way. It's a complex game with many different complex systems intertwining.
And grinding = gameplay.
What do you do the whole day in an ARPG? You kill stuff to get goodies. How is that not the same as grinding?
When I said that D3 is an excellent action game rather than an excellent ARPG
This is also always something I've said to people.
D3 is a great action game, but not a good RPG.
They put more emphasis on the action elements in the game than on the RPG elements.
As someone who likes RPG more than action, I didn't like it though.
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CharanJaydemyr написал:
Cooldowns are essentially the same as building up powerful moves, which GGG are dabbling with but haven't got anything on Blizzard.
Cooldowns are also a way to reduced desync in the game. A lot of MMOs have them exactly for that reason.
"
CharanJaydemyr написал:
Unlike the tactically rich brawlers such as Diablo 3 and I'd say Dragon's Crown, the ARPG is more strategic. You do most of your work before leaving town. Those one or two 'spam' skills are the deceptively simple veneer of a lot of work. If you'd rather just have fun killing stuff in dozens of satisfying ways and taking their shit, there are far better games out there than either PoE or D3.
Good old vanilla ware creating cool games, too bad I haven't played it, because I have no ps3 :(
"
CharanJaydemyr написал:
But I don't think PoE ever aimed for that, whereas D3 really did, instead of sticking to its ARPG roots. I do believe D3 was a much bigger missfire than PoE, but that what PoE was aiming for remains ultimately beyond GGG's current grasp.
All the design choices (especially regaring the desync issue) point towards that in D3. The game was ment to be a fun action game with some rpg elements.
But what do you mean with "what PoE was aiming for remains ultimately beyond GGG's current grasp."
Последняя редакция: KenshiD#1543. Время: 17 мар. 2014 г., 09:08:22
