O'Fusing Orb Vendor Recipe ... where art thou?

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ownjizu написал:

"I made ~300-400 alts in 4 hours farming with iir + iiq (not obnoxious dom/piety runs), so what's that like in fusings, 40-50? Seems like quite on okay rate to me."

Well, firstly, what you're saying there is you are able to vendor roughly 400-500 rare items in an hour (4 shards/item (avg)-> 5 items -> 1 alt), give or take (yes, I understand some are straight alt drops). I don't know what you're farming but, at best, it takes me 15-20 minutes to clear a map (or the library if I'm out of maps), assuming I don't get wrecked by some unfortunate combination of rare monster mods, and I'll get maybe 20-25 rare items per map if I'm lucky. That's quite a gap. Even if I had 100% IIQ, it wouldn't even come close. And even if you can get that many items to drop, you'd run out of map portals trying to vendor it all. I assume you're not farming maps...?

So, I'm wary of the accuracy of your statement as it doesn't even come close to realistic based on my experience of the game.

But kudos to you if you can pull that off, you must have a beast of a character.

I'm gonna be honest - if you're only averaging 4 alt shards per item, you need to get out your RNGesus idol and start sacrificing some virgins. I would say an average would be around 6-12 shards per and that's conservative, not including alch shards.

300-400 alterations in 4 hours though...lol. A guy can dream.

Truth be told though - if you're taking 15 minutes to clear a map, there is something wrong with your technique. Not even necessarily your build, but your method of clearing must be flawed.

Case and point: most newbies have this justifiable feeling that they need to kill every monster. This is false. You need to kill MOST of the monsters. If you have cleared most of the map area and you hit /remaining and see 17 monsters left - don't waste 10 minutes tracking them all down. Roll up a new map. Get a fresh batch. You wouldn't think so, but it really helps your income average if you spend less time hunting down those stragglers and get back into a fresh map ready for clearing.

(that said - fusings really ought to have a vendor recipie...)

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ownjizu написал:

"I made ~300-400 alts in 4 hours farming with iir + iiq (not obnoxious dom/piety runs), so what's that like in fusings, 40-50? Seems like quite on okay rate to me."

Well, firstly, what you're saying there is you are able to vendor roughly 400-500 rare items in an hour (4 shards/item (avg)-> 5 items -> 1 alt), give or take (yes, I understand some are straight alt drops). I don't know what you're farming but, at best, it takes me 15-20 minutes to clear a map (or the library if I'm out of maps), assuming I don't get wrecked by some unfortunate combination of rare monster mods, and I'll get maybe 20-25 rare items per map if I'm lucky. That's quite a gap. Even if I had 100% IIQ, it wouldn't even come close. And even if you can get that many items to drop, you'd run out of map portals trying to vendor it all. I assume you're not farming maps...?

So, I'm wary of the accuracy of your statement as it doesn't even come close to realistic based on my experience of the game.

But kudos to you if you can pull that off, you must have a beast of a character.

It's all about using the right build in the right areas, some builds are just superior when we are talking about x-y done/hour. I run with 100/300 mf and instakilling packs, my gear is worth like 80-100 ex but I could do it with a tabula and have it way cheaper or 6l greed and have way better mf, just today I used up ~80 fuses on my bramblejack in the 7h I was playing and I spent 1-2h not farming alts like a madman, but daily deal(vori, elreon) warps the numbers a bit.
I dropped quite a few fuses straight from mobs ~10 too.

"You have indeed come to the wrong place. ARPGs are designed such that your wealth snowballs over time. The more you have, the more you can make (due to better gear etc), and PoE is a quintessential example of this.

It should be hard to get GG gear. If not, then everyone runs out of things to do very quickly. It seems to me that you don't understand that the more powerful you get in this game, the longer it takes you to find upgrades. Asking for your next upgrade to come to you more quickly is folly."
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Yes, I agree with most of what you said which is exactly why this particular aspect is broken (imo ofc). I don't think you quite understood my analogy but it's irrelevant. Again, as previously stated, I'm not saying these things need to rain from the sky, just that the rate of supply needs to be adjusted to be in balance with the necessity of the item.

Look, it isn't like I'm endlessly farming Atziri complaining that I never get the drop that I want. The progress of my character relies on the success of a system that is designed to fail more than 99% of the time. I get it, welcome to RNG. What I'm saying is the way the system is currently setup (i.e. rarity of fusings compared to the odds of success) is inconsistent with the balance of the rest of the game. A well balanced RPG will afford the player a (reasonably) consistent experience of progression that steadily slows as it reaches the apex of end game content. This game, as is, gives the experience of driving a sports car 120mph into a brick wall.

To go from leveling to 60 in a matter of a few days (less for some I'm sure), one-shotting groups of mobs and face tanking level 65+ bosses at level 65, to getting wrecked on level 75 maps at level 80 and being forced to farm things 10 levels below me for weeks on end is drastically and abruptly inconsistent, hence, it's out of balance.

Indeed, I'm sure I can improve my farming skills and slightly increase the rate at which I collect vendor trash (tips received and appreciated) but I would much rather be able to kill things that give me decent exp and drop useful items as I have enjoyed doing up until this point.

Also, for the record, I'm not saying this is entirely due to the crafting system. There are many reasons for this, I am only addressing one that I see as being easily rectified, yet unchanged. This raises concern for me as to the vision of the devs and their intended direction for the game. i.e. should I continue supporting it's development?

Regardless, my intention here isn't to continually explain the reasoning behind my opinion but to find out if anyone out there has heard a dev address this as it is clearly an issue for a significant number of players (if you don't see a problem, GREAT! GL HF!). I've been gaming for 25 years and I have a decent sense of when part of a game doesn't feel right. We can debate numbers and opinions all day but in the end the value of a game is in the experience it gives you. For the most part, PoE is a fantastic game and I really want to see it succeed but, as is, the experience is dying before reaching what should be the best part of the game. IMHO, making an adjustment to this aspect would help correct it. Many feel the same.

What say the devs? Anyone know?


P.S. Thanks all for your replies

"I'm gonna be honest - if you're only averaging 4 alt shards per item, you need to get out your RNGesus idol and start sacrificing some virgins. I would say an average would be around 6-12 shards per and that's conservative, not including alch shards."

Virgins, but of course! Why didn't I think of that?!


Problem solved.


/end_thread

:p

 The OP is right in that the drop rates of fusings are so low that attempting to amass enough fusings to craft a 6L is extremely out of the realm of any reasonable amount of currency farming. Also right is the fact that once you get a 5L on your 6S gear, should you piss it away trying for a 6L, and then when you run out of fusings and don't get it and then rage quit and swear all kinds of fowl things at the GGG devs for coding crafting gambling RNG this bad? GGG, you should allow us to go back to the best links we achieved. So if I threw 200 fusings to 5L an item and I got 4L early and many times but never did get a 5L and ran out of fusings, I should be allowed to keep the last 4L. Better that then after the last fusing used and only having a 2 or 3 link and then rage quitting and more swearing "this piece of RNG shit is all the devs could come up with?!".

 GGG has never done anything to address the fact that goal of gearing is to get 6L gear and once achieved that that's all there is. So all GGG can do is set the 6L bar so ridiculously high (bad) that it can take 1000 to 2000 fusings to achieve a 6L (and maybe not even then). No way that getting a 6L should be that extreme. What GGG needs to do is factor in the total number of fusings used to 5L or 6L a gear so that as the number of fusings used goes up the odds of getting a 6L also go up. This would mean setting a maximum cap on the total number of fusings to get a 6L so that it would guarantee that a 6L will be yours by say 2000 fusings tops. So on first fusing try the odds of getting a 6L would only increase by 1/2000 but by 1000 fusings your odds of getting a 6L increase to 1000/2000 or 50%.

 Hmmm.... just had a great suggestion that GGG should add a number of fusings used stat to gear that is listed after the prefices/suffixes that shows the total fusings used on it so far in the items existence so that it would be a selling factor for the item. Just think about it a moment and you will see that knowing that a 6S gear has had x number of fusings used but is currently only, let's say, a 4L and also knowing that as the number of fusings used to get a 6L goes up so does your RNG chances of getting a 6L (or 5L), then a 6S item up for sale that has had 500 fusings used already (but is still a 4L) is more valuable than the same 6S item that has no fusings used on it. By tracking total fuses used to 5L or 6L an item then that would really invigorate the RNG gambling element of PoE and increase trading of lesser quality 6S gear.

 Come on GGG devs, get out of your "we must push out new zones or bling or die" attitude! Think outside your old and very tired CB PoE box and shake up PoE so that crafting/gambling is a pleasant experience to look forward to instaed of the pain and frustration that it currently is.

Seriously Chris, you don't want to follow the other Wilson's path to ruin:

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Arrowneous написал:

 Come on GGG devs, get out of your "we must push out new zones or bling or die" attitude! Think outside your old and very tired CB PoE box and shake up PoE so that crafting/gambling is a pleasant experience to look forward to instaed of the pain and frustration that it currently is.

what pain and frustration? you're suggesting most people who quit temp leagues after 1 month do so because they have given up on 6 linking their stuff?

imho people stop because they got what they wanted and they burned out by constantly running endgame maps with their perfected gear and can't be bothered starting another char.

lol what kind of deranged mad man tries to amass fusing orbs by only finding them?


this is a trade simulator , dont measure what you got by what dropped measure it by the value ,in that item, of the things that dropped.

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rate of supply needs to be adjusted to be in balance with the necessity of the item.

6L items are not in any way a necessity. If you are playing a build for which a 6L is a necessity, you're doing it wrong.

6L is a luxury, not something which is necessary. 5L is a necessity for many builds, and 5L is easy to get.

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tackle70 написал:

6L items are not in any way a necessity. If you are playing a build for which a 6L is a necessity, you're doing it wrong.

6L is a luxury, not something which is necessary. 5L is a necessity for many builds, and 5L is easy to get.

+1

Also people forget 1 basic thing(and then think they need 5/6L):
if you are attack-based, you need a good weapon(phys), if ele, you need good jewels/auras+flat damage from weapon.

If you are summon/spell/trap based, you need level 20 gems to play 75+ maps(with 4L's).

20q gems+5/6 links are just a nice bonus, and softcore people use IIR anyways.