PoE leaving its hardcore niche and turning generic

Disclaimer: A bit of a lengthy rant and can be considered "elitist" if you haven't been around long enough

When I first started playing PoE a long time ago, it was a game without end. You could play it for thousands of hours and not have done everything there was to do. The items that dropped were generally useful and unique drops were a rare occasion that made you excited. Even normal rare quality items were worth picking up and identifying.

That game was made for the people who liked the older style of games. The people who were disappointed that Diablo 3 wasn't the successor to Diablo 2 that they had hoped for.

Now it seems like every patch to the game makes it more and more casual friendly, leaving the people who want the endless difficult content with no more than a week or two of things to do.

A lot of those sort of players have had to resort to self constraints like self found to still enjoy the game, but this not being supported in any way from the developers makes it hard.

When half of the streamers are playing the self found hardcore challenge, because they ran out of things to do in the normal leagues after a mere 3 or so weeks then I think that's a problem. The hype of watching the race to 100 in the temporary leagues quickly runs to its end in the current version of the game. People get to 100 in less than a week, and after that a lot of the competitive players in that league lose their motivation to keep playing.

If you look at the ladder and you see around 60 people having hit level 100 after just a month or so of the league, that to me is really discouraging. If you compare it to a league like Invasion where 5 people managed to get to max level in 4 months, that's offering content and goals yet to achieve for a much longer time. The hype for the 100-race and watching streamers and videos is maintained throughout the whole 4-month period, instead of the current 4 days. Besides the SSF challenge streams, there is nothing exciting to watch anymore about the game.

I can understand that a game has to accommodate the largest demographic of the game, and make the game fit them to have the most customers and thereby making the most profit. But that's not what Path of Exile was about when I first explored it. It was supposed to be a game for the hardcore minority, a game that was made for that niche. Now its just turning in to more and more of a generic game. Uniques dropping every 5 minutes that aren't even worth trading away, leveling being easier and easier and many more reasons.

This league I had a friend join me to play the game and after just two weeks of the new leagues he had reached level 90 and was basically satisfied with his gear and progress. If a brand new player who plays less than 30 hours a week can reach that point so quickly, I think the game isn't doing its job.

The community back when the game was new was built up on D2/D3 refugees who were looking for an hardcore experience after D3 got boring and was made easier. Now the game seems to turn in to that version of D3 more and more every patch and those hardcore players are left bored quickly.

I think its really sad that the niche hardcore community that made the game successful aren't getting what they want out of the game anymore, and I really hope that the next leagues are going to step in the right direction, but it seems like we have a new community now that GGG are focusing on.

Inb4 comments saying "oh im having a great time this league, i can do any build I want cheaply".
This might seem fine the first time it happens, but in the long term perspective giving everyone access to everything easily makes the game last a lot less longer. People are way too focused on the goal nowadays and forget that the journey is 90% of it. I said the same thing when they doubled T1 drop rates and its been downhill since then.

TL;DR: The new leagues get boring after 2-3 weeks for the people who play a lot and its hurting the overall game. You quickly get to a point where your character is "done" with the increased drop rates and experience gained, making you run out of content much quicker than before. When somebody hits level 100 a lot of the hype is gone and that period can easily be extended.

Im not trying to hate on the game, I am making posts like these because I care about the game and think it needs to change direction for the long term.

Chris said that this league has more people playing after a month than every other league except the one at release 1.0.0). So you conclusion is wrong. People aren't getting bored and quitting like you want to think. Items have more availability this league so people are getting further and making more characters than past leagues. Maybe it is easier than Invasion. But you don't count the people that thought Invasion was too hard and unrewarding and quit after a month.

So you're wrong about everybody quitting because it's too easy or casual. And I can't help but notice you have 29/40 challenges completed. If what you said was true shouldn't you be sitting at 40/40?

have you ever thought that people reach 100 faster now because they have been playing this game for years now and have a lot of experience ?

This league has been a lot of fun for me. I have gotten 3 chars 90+ and each one has gotten progressively stronger. I went from RF totems, to voltaxic spark, then by that point I was pretty wealthy and had enough to get 6L volls armor + volls amulet to make CoC discharge.

I think I have learned more about the game this league than ever before because almost anything is available to try out.

I do think enemies need more HP. Everything has been faceroll even up to the t15 maps and it does get boring to just 1 shot everything for hours until I finally get 1 shot myself.

I think next league will be great. Hopefully we will still be strong but with Cadiro out of the picture gg drops will be something to get excited about again.

I have to agree.

I do not play PoE as "full-time" as I used to, but this league and the previous one I pretty much just hit my goal for mtx rewards and then stopped playing. It takes me about a 3-4 weeks casually.

This is nice so that I do not get burnt out by the time the next league starts, but I don't feel motivated to keep playing past the challenge bar that I set.

However, I have had the most fun these past 2 leagues, although short, due to how cheap things have gotten. It does feel like I have lost that crave for item drops since they aren't worth as much anymore.

I feel for the hardcore players that play much longer than me consistently.

What he's saying is that the original pool of player attracted by the difficulty of the game is leaving and beeing replaced by a more casual crowd.

The thing is casuals players may boost the company incomes by a lot over a short time, but they are also the ones who leave to the next big thing pretty fast as well where Hardcore players usually stick around for way longer.

I guess GGG is trying to balance the game between those two extremes but I must agree with the OP that the game is now extremely easy for a seasoned Arpg player. There is literally no challenges left in term of content or gear acquisition (everything is so cheap now) so you're left with nothing to look for.

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mark1030 написал:

Chris said that this league has more people playing after a month than every other league except the one at release 1.0.0). So you conclusion is wrong. People aren't getting bored and quitting like you want to think. Items have more availability this league so people are getting further and making more characters than past leagues. Maybe it is easier than Invasion. But you don't count the people that thought Invasion was too hard and unrewarding and quit after a month.

So you're wrong about everybody quitting because it's too easy or casual. And I can't help but notice you have 29/40 challenges completed. If what you said was true shouldn't you be sitting at 40/40?

My point isn't that people will abandon the game this league, its that the game won't be satisfying for the people who play 100 hours a week. Yeah, the more casual players will enjoy this league but in the next 4 leagues they wont because they did everything this league already because things are easy.

The challenge thing is a ridiculous notion. If you had told me I didn't fully play the game since i didn't get 8/8 in invasion for example, then i'd agree with you. But this 40/40 is a joke. Its not hard, its just a grind that anybody can do at level 70. I have over 70 ex in my stash, and i could literally buy my way to get another 3-6 challenges today. But that's not challenging to me, it's just a checkbox to cross that i did the stupid things they asked me to. The old 8/8 were truly challenges, they made you play the full 3/4 month league as hard as you could to finish, making even the 1% guys sweat to complete it.

Your reply just makes it clear that you didn't get my point. Do you think 40/40 in this league is harder than doing ubers in invasion for example? I have done my personal goals already, get level 98, do ubers etc.

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idiocracy1992 написал:

have you ever thought that people reach 100 faster now because they have been playing this game for years now and have a lot of experience ?

Yes, players have gotten better at the game. But we are numerically stronger in this version of the game compared to say in Invasion. We clear maps 3x faster, we have level 82 maps available to us instead of 78s. This is not purely due to people getting better. The average 100 this league is in my opinion nowhere near the skill of say a player like Havoc in 2014.

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Protatoe69 написал:

This league has been a lot of fun for me. I have gotten 3 chars 90+ and each one has gotten progressively stronger. I went from RF totems, to voltaxic spark, then by that point I was pretty wealthy and had enough to get 6L volls armor + volls amulet to make CoC discharge.

I think I have learned more about the game this league than ever before because almost anything is available to try out.

I do think enemies need more HP. Everything has been faceroll even up to the t15 maps and it does get boring to just 1 shot everything for hours until I finally get 1 shot myself.

I think next league will be great. Hopefully we will still be strong but with Cadiro out of the picture gg drops will be something to get excited about again.

I think this is what most players felt in this league. That is of course a good thing, that they enjoy the game. But in the long run, this pace of the game is not gonna be good. In a year's time we'll have done that same thing 2-3 times over and it won't feel challenging anymore. Most people in the old challenge leagues didn't get past level 85, and that left the feeling of progression still in their mind, making the next league exciting. You did a little bit better each time.

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IceDeal написал:

What he's saying is that the original pool of player attracted by the difficulty of the game is leaving and beeing replaced by a more casual crowd.

The thing is casuals players may boost the company incomes by a lot over a short time but they are also the one who leave to the next big thing pretty fast as well when Hardcore players usually stick around for a way longer time.

I guess GGG is trying to balance the game between those two extremes but I must agree with the OP that the game is now extremely easy for a seasoned Arpg player. There is literally no challenges left in term of content or gear acquisition (everything is so cheap now) so you're left with nothing to look for.

I agree, they seem to be trying to satisfy everybody, which is understandable. But i think thats what the downfall of games like World of Warcraft was. They tried to make everyone happy and wound up making nobody happy. You also have to factor in that the average casual player probably doesn't spend more than $50 on the game, while people like me who spend 5+ hours a day in the game for each day throughout the challenge leagues are more willing to spend hundreds of dollars on it.

At the end of the day, GGG is a company out to make money. The heavy focus on MTX creation and and smaller focus on mechanics and performance proves this. Casualfication is part of the money making process.

I dont disagree with your lament. But the 1% doesnt pay for the server and the bills. It's the broad casual and Chris is coming round to it.

I still think POE is mechanically the most interesting ARPG out there even if droprates and challenges have been dumbed down. So personally I like the direction POE is going - more interesting mechanics but less of a grind to experience the game in its entirety.

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鬼殺し написал:

You and I started at the same time, OP, and likely for the same reason.

I agree with you but have been self constrained from the start. It's a sort of defence mechanism I brought with me from decades of gaming non competitively, which strikes me as the best way to really enjoy a game for as long as possible. So these so called casualisation changes don't really affect me.... But I see them and I get why people from the closed beta might feel the game is appealing to a different crowd than back then.

But don't dismiss the fact that a game will seem easier and easier the more people play it, especially when they go at it as hard as some people go at PoE. I don't mean at an individual level but as a collective. I think if you were to come to PoE now with the same ignorance we had then, and didn't take advantage of things like trading or the wiki (we had neither, after all), you'd probably find it just as difficult and hardcore as we did... If not more so, given how many more factors need to be considered now: jewels, more complicated support gems, masters, nemesis and bloodlines mods, the Labyrinth, Ascendancy, act 4...

But yeah, if you want to make PoE boring and easy, it's more possible now than ever before.

And it's only going to become more and more so. Each patch, each update is a new test of one's willpower to resist the temptation of cookie cutters, aggressive trading and other practices that can trivialise the majority of the game.

I suspect when there seems to be no option but to follow the crowd, that'll be when I quit for good. That day, however, is not yet here.

I find it really frustrating to have to constrain myself to find challenge in the game. I want to have to do my 100% best to get to my goals, but since i run out of goals in 2 weeks in this state of the game, that makes it harder. Thats what it used to be like for me, I could give it my 100% and still not reach 95+, still not get a shavs by the end of the league and so on. Now that I can get essentially BiS gear, kill ubers etc in two-three weeks makes it a very sad transition.