The Litany of reasons that Melee sucks

Saying that GGG 's balance team "has absolutely no clue what they are doing at all. " Is freaking ignorant, it's kinda ridiculous ...

There will always obviously be an unknown parameter when they release something, in such a game they cannot expect all the potential outcomes.

Imagine a balance much much more fucked couple of years ago, that would be if hey had just thrown stuff like what is being discussed here with no precaution and no thinking behind it.

its true that melee sucks, and to make melee viable at all end game you will need that atziri glove.
However you can go es melee. I've done that every now and then out of boredom.

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Fruz написал:

Saying that GGG 's balance team "has absolutely no clue what they are doing at all. " Is freaking ignorant, it's kinda ridiculous ...

There will always obviously be an unknown parameter when they release something, in such a game they cannot expect all the potential outcomes.

Imagine a balance much much more fucked couple of years ago, that would be if hey had just thrown stuff like what is being discussed here with no precaution and no thinking behind it.

They actually don't have any idea what they are doing. I could have told you that upping the mob damage and keeping the same life values was going to make ES far stronger of a choice. Why? Because they made the SAME exact mistake years ago during Onslaught league.


It's one thing when it's something totally unknown, however this clearly was just GGG not testing content thoroughly enough once again. It would have taken all but 1 test with a 230-240% life character with a Kaoms to know most of the new content is way far overtuned.

New content way far overtuned ?

Funny how the first EHC shaper kill happened a while ago and was on a life based character ....

Some of the content is overtuned, but how people are exagerating here is .....


And you don't have any idea how balancing a game works then, you don't have any idea of all the implication of what they are doing and what they could be doing, you have no idea how to handle such a project and balance it well enough.
You have also literally absolutely no idea what GGG wants to release as a content.


And ES was a far stronger choice before, essence league made it easier to gear.
If people want to run the highest tier with crazy mods and be sure to survive, then ES is much safer obviously, but maybe GGG does not want everybody to run crazy mods at this level anyway ( not saying that the fact that ES might have it much easier is a good thing ).

Melee does suck. But thats entirely sifferent from saying melee is not viable. I can do all content on my cycloner and hes clearly a life based juggernaut.

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Fruz написал:

You have also literally absolutely no idea what GGG wants to release as a content.

Half baked shit to sell mystery boxes?

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GeorgAnatoly написал:

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Fruz написал:

You have also literally absolutely no idea what GGG wants to release as a content.

Half baked shit to sell mystery boxes?

More salt please

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Fruz написал:

More salt please

You're right, my bad. I spent too little time developing that response and rushed out a product with too little salt.

lol :)

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Fruz написал:

New content way far overtuned ?

Funny how the first EHC shaper kill happened a while ago and was on a life based character ....

Some of the content is overtuned, but how people are exagerating here is .....


And you don't have any idea how balancing a game works then, you don't have any idea of all the implication of what they are doing and what they could be doing, you have no idea how to handle such a project and balance it well enough.
You have also literally absolutely no idea what GGG wants to release as a content.


And ES was a far stronger choice before, essence league made it easier to gear.
If people want to run the highest tier with crazy mods and be sure to survive, then ES is much safer obviously, but maybe GGG does not want everybody to run crazy mods at this level anyway ( not saying that the fact that ES might have it much easier is a good thing ).

'Have no idea how balancing a game works'


How about they test their content first before actually releasing it, because it's clear since Invasion that they don't. No one is saying that their balancing should be spot on, but it literally takes all but like 2-3 seconds to realize that the vast majority of their content is way overtuned, literally every single league.


Shit like BV getting somehow buffed is basically indefensible, as well as the mob damage changes that have essentially neutered every life build that isn't a Totem char or utilizes a Kaoms chest. It's not like people are complaining about new issues; no, it's the fact that GGG continues to make the same dumb fucking mistakes since day 1.

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allbusiness написал:

How about they test their content first before actually releasing it, because it's clear since Invasion that they don't. No one is saying that their balancing should be spot on, but it literally takes all but like 2-3 seconds to realize that the vast majority of their content is way overtuned.

There is a special ring in Hell for users of the phrase "literally all but like."

So here's a more realistic view on testing:
1. Because keeping new players is so important to the playerbase, I highly doubt that any level cheating is used, except by the highest-level GGG staff, during testing. So virtually no one is testing endgame until they level first, manually, the old-fashioned way, and the few who can bypass this barely test at all.
2. They're not just going to test your one skill. They're not just going to test melee skills. So take that leveling experience and multiply by at least 4. More likely 10.
3. There's probably no trade during testing.
4. Even if they encounter what seems like severe difficulty, it's unlikely that they'll immediately blame that on the game. Unless the tester experience is so completely beyond the pale that they think "even with trade enabled this would be nonsense," they're unlikely to identify it as a balance problem.
5. Finally, even if the tester identifies it as a potential problem to themselves, they need to go past thinking it and onto saying it. If it's not reported, it won't get fixed.

So in conclusion, it is utterly bonkers to think GGG can prevent all of these issues with simple testing. It takes the community hundreds if not thousands of hours of collective playtime to identify these problems. That's not man-hours, that's man-months or man-years. (man-hours probably isn't PC anymore) Paying someone to perform testing beyond the leveling experience and basic bug fixes is horrendously resource-intensive and particularly difficult for endgame.

I don't think the answer is testing. At all. You cannot expect a developer to play their game with the same time commitment, or even skill level, as their community. Instead, GGG needs a better theoretical framework to predict the effects of design choices. If you haven't noticed yet, we're all testers, we do it for free, and that's a hell of a lot cheaper. GGG just needs to get better at getting things "close enough" before we get to work.