The Litany of reasons that Melee sucks

"

wiggin написал:

When comparing ranged to melee, maybe we could simply accept that melee will be better at something else than ranged and its clear speed will always suffer by design. Creating more eq-like skills and pushing melee to be petty much the same spot as ranged might help the balance but everyone is ranged then.

Maybe just making melee great at killing bosses would be cool, hence this proximity shield suggestion. When fighing in melee fight, if you would recieve some stacking defense against anything that tries to damage you from afar even if it went all the way up to invulnerability (at certain range) would be OK, not OP, because to keep this, you need to get close to the enemy where you do not benefit from such buff anyway.

"

Jgizle написал:

I think title should be changed to why melee as Life sucks. There are ES melee builds too.

"

wiggin написал:

"

ScrotieMcB написал:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

That fix was implemented. It didn't solve things. It won't solve anything if we say "it wasn't enough" and try to repeat it.

The problem is in clear speed imbalance. Obviously if you clear the screen slower, enemies have more time to damage you - often zero chance vs ranged and significant change vs melee. The only multiplicative equalizer which takes "some damage" to "zero damage" is invulnerability.

Ranged AoE and/or Attack/Cast Speed must be nerfed so melee has room to develop relative clearspeed advantages. Currently, there is no design space; ranged has every clearspeed benefit imaginable.

I liked the quote but it doesn`t exactly fit this case, does it? I know it is off topic but it's really only about defining the different result. You could say that walking for 5 minutes didn't take you to your destination so doing it again would be insane, but if you check the map and find yourself half-way there... Or using for example a fusing orb would be insane... wait, it is, nvm.

When comparing ranged to melee, maybe we could simply accept that melee will be better at something else than ranged and its clear speed will always suffer by design. Creating more eq-like skills and pushing melee to be petty much the same spot as ranged might help the balance but everyone is ranged then.

Maybe just making melee great at killing bosses would be cool, hence this proximity shield suggestion. When fighing in melee fight, if you would recieve some stacking defense against anything that tries to damage you from afar even if it went all the way up to invulnerability (at certain range) would be OK, not OP, because to keep this, you need to get close to the enemy where you do not benefit from such buff anyway.

People hate nerfs :'(

"

alhazred70 написал:

Fixing? Easy use the same solutions that games that have better melee vs ranged balance use. Now I realize this would have to be slowly moved towards, and not done all at once without essentially giving POE a figurative table flip. But these are some ways other games keep melee an essential part of their available playstyles:

Strive for ranged DPS to be about 1/3rd that of single target melee
Keep AOE ranged/spell damage about 1/4 that of single target melee
Give bosses the same ability to one shot a ranged player as a point blank player right now it's almost all "you're screwed if you're next to the boss" which just means: "right now you're screwed if you're stubborn and insist on playing melee"
Give bosses the ability to suck in, grapple, or "root" a kiter
Give bosses the ability to put up a D&D style "globe of invulnerability" that requires getting inside of (getting closer) to do ranged/spell damage or the ability to wall out distant ranged attackers while those inside of the wall (think Vaal Frsotwall) can still do damage.
Make Armor more effective against bosses than it is, make fortify go away when a ranged skill is used, put some sort of melee advantaged "brace for impact" or "gird yourself" mechanic. For example "when pressing the don't move key (as one Might do when using namelock and not wanting to wander all over the screen) and having used a melee skill very recently (2s non movement skill) you have "braced for impact" (perhaps gives large crit multi reduction) if a shield is equipped you also have "shield blocking" (say +15% block and max block, +10% max resists cannot be poisoned, bleed, or get status ailments while shield blocking) basically this somewhat simulates the ranged advantages of avoiding by running away while still being able to do high DPS from distance.

Probably also need to reduce ES from it's current ratio of being about 150% more plentiful than life with 10k ES being far less effort than 5k life while gaining the massive advantage of 5 unique flask slots (or at least more of them than a Life build or a hybrid).

Another thing they could do would be to put some Unique Life flasks in the game that have distinct melee utility, and maybe close the gap a little between these low life 14k ES builds that can run 5 OP utility flasks.

For example a Unique Life flask that gives a huge amount of life over a very long duration takes the peak "one shot" boss crits down a notch but costs movement speed, and has 50% "less" ranged/AOE (but not melee splash) damage. Or an instant recovery life flask that heals 8000 life, but only refills as long as you don't move too much (threshold so you can move for a few seconds at a time to adjust to the boss but kiting would = never recharge), and as long as you are not moving you gain -50% crit multi on hits taken during flask recharge.

Ofc the question is, does GGG recognize a need for melee to be significantly better than it is, or do they envision Melee as the games "hard mode" playstyle. As I said at the outset, I am not opposed to the game having a playstyle that is a sort of extra Ironman or challenge mode. So maybe melee doesn't need the more drastic measures I've outlined (I should say again, that those are things OTHER GAMES have done to somewhat balance the Ranged vs Melee issue in their games, I am not suggesting all of them would be palatable or workable or desired in POE)

"

Gary_GGG написал:

"

azmodael написал:

I've played this game for over 4 years. Melee has sucked in every single interaction of it. All successful melee builds used mechanics that avoided the melee component -> Spectral Throw, Earthquake, Ice Crash, Cyclone. Subsequently all such mechanics were nerfed. Voidheart was the one truly good melee item and it got nerfed as well.

If GGG wanted to fix melee they would have done so years ago. They don't. Go play a bow character instead.

Also: no one from GGG reads Feedback and Suggestion section.

Actually, the Developers read every thread in the the Feedback and Suggestions forum, it's the best place to post if you want developers to read your feedback.

Additionally, the Support team reads every post that is made on the forum.