How can we fix Hierophant?

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Turbodevil написал:

This conversasion comes down to:

- Hierophant is bad
- No, it's good for hybrid builds
- But hybrids are bad
- No, they have more EHP buffers. That's a good thing, potentialy best for spike damage
- But you need to maintain them!

YES. You need to maintain them. Find working way to maintain them and enjoy your Hierophancy boosted huge EHP pool.

HP + MOM? Life leech, life pot, mana regen, mana pot
HP + MOM + EB + ES? Life leech, life pot, Zealoth Oath, ES recovery, have slightly more ES than MOM ratio suggests so ES is not fully depleted in spike damage situation
HP + MOM + ES? Life regen, life pot, mana regen, Ghost Reaver.

Or come up with something else, there are hundreds of uniques to make things working.

Be creative.

You seem to misunderstand. You were speaking the truth when you said Hierophant is good for hybrid, but that doesn't mean hybrids are good builds. It's like saying, you can drive with a blindfold. Yeah, it's possible, doesn't mean it should be done.

Higher eHP is always better for spike damage. We have not yet determined whether a hybrid build can come up with more eHP than a pure life or pure ES build. If this is what you're saying, let me know.

HP+MoM: Opportunity cost of having to build both mana and life, opportunity cost of less damage/utility flasks. Mana flasks are also notoriously slow in recovery or near useless in the instant recovery variants.

HP+MoM+EB+ES: Splitting far too many stats again. Life to boost life, Life regen for ZO, ES recovery and ES to scale EB and total eHP. You'd have to scale far more ES than you'd initially think, as casting any spells interrupts ES regen. In a spike damage situation, if you miscalculate, you no longer have any left for movement.

HP+MoM+ES: Life nodes, ES nodes, Mana nodes, Life regen, Ghost reaver. Huge opportunity cost in efficient nodes as you're attempting to stack both life and ES which doesn't always go so well. There's also a lack of synergy as MoM does not effect ES.

But, this is going off topic, as it questions the merits of hybrid builds in general. I'll make a separate thread for that. Let's keep this focused on Hierophant.

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Fruz написал:

Many people seem to be using ES recharge instead of leech, it's a different playstile than just facetanking everything, but it's there, and there are many ways to reduce the recharge time / rate.

You can also use life regen + pots, and gost reaver for example, or the other way around.
You could use shavronne's revelation also.
Or Aegis aurora.

Yes, you need to play around it, or build around it, or both.
Maybe it won't give you brainless facetanking like full ES + crit + VP + GR, so what ?

Completely agree with the post above.

I haven't personally encountered people utilizing ES recharge as described outside of Occultists. They have nodes that synergize well with that concept. But, this is about Hierophant.

Yes, you could use Shavronne's Revelation, and have even less slots to dedicate to resistances on Hierophant. You'd also lose the ability to synergize Romira's into endurance charges and lose permanent immortal call. (Something a Juggernaught does not even need to do). Or you could use both rings, and proceed to need to stack all other necessary stats in fewer slots.

Again, far higher opportunity costs compared to other builds.

In all of these things, both of your are saying that to have parity in eHP to life or ES builds, we must take all of these extra stats just to perform on an equal level. Again, this is more about the merits of a hybrid build, rather than Hierophant itself. But, it equally illustrates further weaknesses in Hierophant for that reason.

Edit: Just to further illustrate my point about this, these projected hybrid builds are far easier to accomplish on an Inquisitor with Pious Path: 4% Life/Mana/ES regen per second which can be done on demand with a Sulphur flask which also removes all elemental status ailments. while having all the other damage in his tree.

You mean, an ability that requires the user to stand in a small area being OP in a meta where the clear speed is king ?

Plus, afaik, pious path does grant dispel when creating consecrated ground, just prevent additional status ailments.

No that the comparison is actually relevant, I was just pointing out that hybrid goes give a pretty high buffer, and that it's perfectly playable, just not meta right now.

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Fruz написал:

You mean, an ability that requires the user to stand in a small area being OP in a meta where the clear speed is king ?

Plus, afaik, pious path does grant dispel when creating consecrated ground, just prevent additional status ailments.

No that the comparison is actually relevant, I was just pointing out that hybrid goes give a pretty high buffer, and that it's perfectly playable, just not meta right now.

I don't want to verge too far off topic, but it's both created on kills and being hit. Yes, it's very good for facetank builds, RF builds, things of that nature. But, it's also of some utility to ranged characters considering it can be done on demand with Sulphur flask.

I'll start a different thread later discussing the merits of hybrid builds.

It's kind of like life in the sense that ES builds simply render it obsolete, and mana pots are both too little and too slow in recovery for MoM to be as quick to recover as ES+VP+GR builds.

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Tsokushin написал:

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Fruz написал:

You mean, an ability that requires the user to stand in a small area being OP in a meta where the clear speed is king ?

Plus, afaik, pious path does grant dispel when creating consecrated ground, just prevent additional status ailments.

No that the comparison is actually relevant, I was just pointing out that hybrid goes give a pretty high buffer, and that it's perfectly playable, just not meta right now.

I don't want to verge too far off topic, but it's both created on kills and being hit. Yes, it's very good for facetank builds, RF builds, things of that nature. But, it's also of some utility to ranged characters considering it can be done on demand with Sulphur flask.

I'll start a different thread later discussing the merits of hybrid builds.

It's kind of like life in the sense that ES builds simply render it obsolete, and mana pots are both too little and too slow in recovery for MoM to be as quick to recover as ES+VP+GR builds.

so after creating a thread about a topic you have no knowledge about youll.create yet another thread where you wiki warior? it will be a good /popcorn material.

the stuff you write here is already reddit worthy

hint: before tou repeat this fiasco maybe just maybe try this stuff tou want to talk about. because your inquisitor and hierophant are both total fails exposing your lack of game understanding

if you want to learn tou have to change the attitude. if you want to create something that people will rip apart on reddit, please do continue..

wiki-wariors.. they never learn

ps. that pious path comment is priceless gem. priceless. you made my day. maybe kill uber izaro for once mmkay?

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sidtherat написал:

More nonsense

Seriously, is it too hard to stay focused on a single topic? You keep spouting off nonsense none of which is true or applicable.

You're seriously just acting bitter and for no reason other than you dislike being wrong.

You don't want to type about the mechanics, or discuss the opportunity costs of builds, but you keep nitpicking my characters when I've already told you I've previously played on friend's accounts and I didn't bother completing it on my Inquisitor due to near end of the league.

Seriously, grow up or get some friends, or simply calm your attitude and discuss FACTS.

Over 90% of your posts in this thread are concerning me or my characters instead of the mechanics. A guy who insults with almost autismal rage and hides all his characters from public view while refusing to talk about the facts.

And for the record, I camped 820 for several hours today just to get my last uber lab trial, just to waltz up and beat him on my Hierophant.

What was that about failed builds? What was that about facts?

Trie changing you skill tree a bit, i gess you need to increase numbers of Spirited Response Jewels and with good corupted helm of 5% MoM and ZO flask you should feel the difrance substancialy. Increase your block or consider going Aeges aurora and your opinion may change rapidly.

Skill Tree

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nEVER_BoRN написал:

Trie changing you skill tree a bit, i gess you need to increase numbers of Spirited Response Jewels and with good corupted helm of 5% MoM and ZO flask you should feel the difrance substancialy. Increase your block or consider going Aeges aurora and your opinion may change rapidly.

Skill Tree

While it would equal equatable damage, I'd lose considerable things from my current build. Namely, 100% increased mana from losing Pledge of Hands, which means I cannot sustain Herald of Thunder (which contributes to my power charge generation) as I would dip under proper MoM %.

I had originally planned to pick up staff block, but had neglected it as of yet due to boosting HP.

In my offline tree builder, that tree would only yield 122% increased ES compared to the 62% increased ES I currently have, while dropping me about 1k life.

I whas using Voll Protector and Arctic armor and still got inaf mana for 45% MoM with outh a Staff you using.
Also 1k life is not that mach compered to having 45% pure MoM, thos jewels each grant up to 10% Max mana and there is 4 of them so you can drop mana pots as you never gona run outh of mana.
Depending what you prefer its your choice but for sake of to the point its what you can do.

hey :-)

was building some experimental build i wanted to share, but now here reading neverborn build seems quite similar:) with some differences.

Build is made on focusing on using two bottom ones ascendancy nodes (for hipsters), since i did not wanted to go for generic build using only one of them.

Build was mechanicaly very interesting using aegis aurora replenishing es and corrupted amulet mod "6% mana gain from damage" and another 3% from skill tree which does work on es as well, meaning that while my es is bumping up and down due aegis my mana is recovering 9% from each hit's damage (did not used spirited responses and never ran out of mana).
Played around 30 maps (7-13 tier), build was quite entertaining even thou damage was pretty horrid. was using chaos fire storm, tooltip 1.2k average damage, probably 0.7x more from poison, could see damage being increased twice by the end of the build, but even then damage will be not quite yet enough to be in average build standards (no better than tier 3).
Total hitpoins were around 7k- 3k life, 2.2k mana and 2.3k or so es with 18k passive armor and 49% passive block (used bunch of legacy gear thou :P). defensively build is quite strong indeed, thou in the end when damages goes crazy (silly maps with 3+ damage mods) character just dies left and right.
Build felt very outside of the meta, mostly because defensive builds doesn't work as well as builds "kill them before they kill us", or es sponges.

Gear i used:



Just wanted to share expierence with this, maybe u will come up with better setup:)

Ps. can post video if you want to see how it performs.

I have a fairly low level hierophant and am using this trash chest I found

and with Conviction of Power is basically... voll's devotion. It would get even more effective with cwdt firestorms and ball lightnings because of how romira's interaction with multiple different multihitting spells at once (1 firestorm makes 1 charge max, 1 ball lightning makes 1 charge max, but 1 firestorm and 1 ball lightning can many charges as when it alternates hits and stuff like that), though I don't use it cuz I like elemental equilibrium

If i ever do uber lab for last 2 ascendency points (lol trash build, can i beat izaro?)a hat like this
can act like a 5.5ish link i guess and I can just use any cheap unlinked es chest... though really hat wasn't that cheap (considering my usual budgets) compared to just 600 es 5 link :(. should have just bought one of those and use a 300 es hat that is easily self craftable with regal on blazing