How can we fix Hierophant?

i pointed out one thing: you babble (there is no better word) about uber izaro using the most comic 'arguments' devised by humanity. you have no experience yet you have the courage to speak up? this stuff right there has a name. look for it.

you did the same thing starting this topic - you decided to discuss balance of a class you havent touched yourself AT LL. this is pure arrogance. and you still do it - after trying it and failing HORRIBLY because you think that you cannot be wrong. 'look at me how i fail! noone can make it work because I CANNOT!' sounds familiar?




league stats.. oh cool. pathfinders were just as non-poular before streamers made it popular. but they were very very strong already. before the first round of buffs.

copy-pasters cannot make builds on their own and they copy what is popular (positive feedback loop) - flameblast/BV/BF.. surprising. right now raider cyclone is trending due to mathil's build.

new players - with no real experience get stuck below the threshold these stats can catch. your failed hierophant is one of these cases.


note: pathfinders (VERY F.. STRONG) and guardians (VERY VERY F.. strong) are just down there with hierophant when it comes to 'popularity'. if that doesnt tell you anything then nothing will

tl;dr: you are wrong. arguing about stuff one has NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever is not wise.

In the end i do hope there, in the future, will be some updates on hierophant or items working with him very well, simply because making it more build-able in more ways and more attractive to the majority of people.

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sidtherat написал:

Everybody is wrong except for me

I went ahead and summarized your post for you. I've already gone over the strength of Guardian in this thread in comparison to Hierophant. And my Hierophant didn't fail. I have friends rerolling so I play with them. I doubt you'd reroll for your friends.

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Andrius319 написал:

In the end i do hope there, in the future, will be some updates on hierophant or items working with him very well, simply because making it more build-able in more ways and more attractive to the majority of people.

As he stands right now, Hierophant has 2 made for him uniques: Pledge of Hands and Romira's Banquet, it's just that Pledge of Hands isn't as strong when compared to the possibilities of DW or 1+shield (Not to mention the opportunity cost of less desired movement skills).

Romira's is a good way of ensuring maximum endurance charges while also having full power charges if you utilize Aylardex or Resolute Technique.

But, even filling out the build with them, it still feels lackluster.

Hierophant really needs either a rework or some buffs.

hierophant needs knowledge and game understanding to work well - nothing more nothing less. it doesnt require Shavs like Guardian. just some thought put into it.

your 'pictures' failed (they suggest that pathfinders and guardians are also weak.. because reasons) so you quickly back out of them..

accept that you simply need to learn a bit or two. and STOP talking about stuff you have NOTHING to say about

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sidtherat написал:

hierophant needs knowledge and game understanding to work well - nothing more nothing less. it doesnt require Shavs like Guardian. just some thought put into it.

your 'pictures' failed (they suggest that pathfinders and guardians are also weak.. because reasons) so you quickly back out of them..

accept that you simply need to learn a bit or two. and STOP talking about stuff you have NOTHING to say about

Oh, I'm sorry. I expected concrete facts and data to be enough. I'll reiterate the post.

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Tsokushin написал:

You keep going on about I haven't got a clue, but I addressed your points. So, beyond your "NO TRUE EXPERIENCED USER" rants, here's the undisputed true facts.





These are all your TRUE EXPERIENCED USERS that actually put their poe knowledge to the test and climb ladders. Some of these people actually do this for a living by streaming.

A small fraction of a fraction actually play Hierophant. Why is that? Is it because they're all noobs? Do you just know everything that they don't?

Or is it the fact that everybody knows that anything the Hierophant does, any number of other Ascendancies can do better?

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hierophant needs knowledge and game understanding to work well - nothing more nothing less. it doesnt require Shavs like Guardian. just some thought put into it.

your 'pictures' failed (they suggest that pathfinders and guardians are also weak.. because reasons) so you quickly back out of them..

accept that you simply need to learn a bit or two. and STOP talking about stuff you have NOTHING to say about

So you are saying that the Top500 in HC are just plain stupid because they didn't pick up the allmighty Hierophant yet every other Ascendancy is represented.

Of course Elementalist is the most common one, but even the rarely picked Pathfinder is good... there are 2 right there in the Top20... is there any Hierophant in the Top20... or Top50... or Top200.

And the main reason is that the class doesn't offer cohesive strengths because it is not made for CI, which means it is bad right away, because you don't need MoM with CI, so sacrificing the damage you can get from Inquisitor and Elementalist to get survivability you don't really need would be stupid. Not to mention that the totem nodes the Hierophant has are hardly any benefit because the reason you mostly pick Totems in the first place is to not have to cast yourself. Because a) you might want to pick up the very powerful totem nodes, which even got buffed, which means your selfcasting lacks anyway or you are not fully optimizing the power of your totems.

And the Hierophant is just bad, like the Ascendant and the Guardian, Necro is simply the better support, which means there isn't a good reason to go Guardian and the Ascendant doesn't offer anything interesting. Of course there are options for those classes, but they are so incredible specific and often have better options elsewhere. Like if you pick Scion for Essence Drain you do that because you prefer her model over Witch or Shadow, and not because she is good.

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Tsokushin написал:

..

so you now have forgotten that you claimed that ANY character with cwdt-ic can do uber lab WITHOUT actually completing it yourself? (plus an amusing list of 'magic' tricks to along that)

that youve started this thread WITHOUT ever touching hierophant class nor allocating a keystone EVER? now that have you touched it youve done everything to fail the build.. any class fails when done badly.

now you preset a data that is undermining YOUR claims.. and the best part is that you still think you are 'right'

kruger-dunning effect.


note: GGG is perfectly fine with some class being less accessible to casual players. some of them are 'easy' like pure-dps classes. some are just brokenOPieOP meta, some offer something only this class offers. and finally there are hidden gems that require something more than wiki-prowess to use.

you not seeing it or thinking that this class SHOULD work this and this way doesnt mean much. it doesnt work for you? sure, move on. but it works for people who want to make it work.


if you are ever caught in real life while talking this way about stuff you have no knowledge of.. lets say it wont help your career

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note: GGG is perfectly fine with some class being less accessible to casual players. some of them are 'easy' like pure-dps classes. some are just brokenOPieOP meta, some offer something only this class offers. and finally there are hidden gems that require something more than wiki-prowess to use.

You mean Hierophants are so well hidden gems that not a single player in the Top500 is using them. Maybe they wanted, but they just weren't able to find the Hierophant because he is obviously better in hiding than in everything else.

If this discussion would go about Saboteur, Ascendant or Deadeye, which are also not that heavily used I would see this reasoning, because there are actually players performing good with them. But if Hierophant has so cryptically hidden power that not even a single player finds a way to make him competitive then even if that odd hidden build nobody found out yet would exist he should still be changed, because an Ascendancy with such obscured mechanics that nobody is able to make use of it should be changed.

There was someone making interesting use of Kinetic Blast with Mines, which was cool and smart, and he was in the Top10 in EHC with it. There was a deadeye using Rain of Arrows utilizing the high AoE buff you get.

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Emphasy написал:

bad, like (...) the Guardian

Since you value what top players do so much, did you ever ask havoc or etup what they think about guardians?

You should really look up "confirmation bias", almost anything you conclude is flawed by that.

P.S.: Didn't Etup even play Hierophant Warchief Totems?

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sidtherat написал:

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Tsokushin написал:

..

so you now have forgotten that you claimed that ANY character with cwdt-ic can do uber lab WITHOUT actually completing it yourself? (plus an amusing list of 'magic' tricks to along that)

that youve started this thread WITHOUT ever touching hierophant class nor allocating a keystone EVER? now that have you touched it youve done everything to fail the build.. any class fails when done badly.

now you preset a data that is undermining YOUR claims.. and the best part is that you still think you are 'right'

kruger-dunning effect.


note: GGG is perfectly fine with some class being less accessible to casual players. some of them are 'easy' like pure-dps classes. some are just brokenOPieOP meta, some offer something only this class offers. and finally there are hidden gems that require something more than wiki-prowess to use.

you not seeing it or thinking that this class SHOULD work this and this way doesnt mean much. it doesnt work for you? sure, move on. but it works for people who want to make it work.


if you are ever caught in real life while talking this way about stuff you have no knowledge of.. lets say it wont help your career

Couple of things here. Just because I haven't completed uber lab on this particular account does not mean I haven't completed it elsewhere.

Furthermore, let's actually discuss this data. How is this data undermining my argument? It shows that rarely anyone plays Hierophant, the surmised reason being that there isn't much a Hierophant can do that other Ascendancies can do better.

So, ignoring some ad-hominem that you keep repeating, let's continue on this matter.

So, you're operating under the Hillary effect. You can shill hard, insult me, but you fail to deal with the facts.

Let's go over more facts:

Can a Hierophant casting 3 totems or more deal more dps than any number of any other Ascendency? Inquisitor, Elementalist, Occultist, Chieftan, Slayer, Berserker, etc. Does it even offer faster clear speed than any of the big name Ascendancies (Elementalist, Inquisitor) that happen to use a single spell totem?

Can you adequately show how Hierophant "needs skill over other classes"? I'm pretty sure any melee build would require much higher attention due to volatiles and neglect in damage on GGG's part.

Can a Hierophant build either damage or Defenses comparable or equal to other Ascendancies?

Does the Hierophant tree have split capabilty with multiple builds like Chieftan, Gladiator, Necromancer, Elementalist, Inquisitor, etc.? This is to say, you can build easily viable builds with Pious path in Inquisitor, not even utilizing crit, Aura or Minion Necromancers, etc. Can the Hierophant have a viable tree without utilizing either 4 point path?

Can a Hierophant bring party utility greater than or equal to a la Guardian or Necromancer?

I can certainly do the same thing you do. You can't get CWDT to work, you must obviously be a noob. You don't even have to cast the spell yourself, it goes off on its own.

These are yes or no questions.