Chris Wilson: "I want to make sure that melee classes are as good as they can be"

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EnvisionaryLunacy написал:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1985677




best shaper killer build is melee

he uses a 2h sword to hit insane dps amounts on the boss

and a diff 2h sword to flicker spam insta kill any trash

melee is fine-


don't make melee ranged, then it is not melee anymore ,kind of takes the point out of it lol

DPS is crazy high, but a ranged build can get the same DPS while still retaining the option to go ranged and also not having to take more risk using Abyssus just to get higher damage. On top of that a ranged build will have a far easier time running an Uber Atziri map than a melee build. He even writes "Uber Atziri is a tough one on this build".

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鬼殺し написал:

That's impressive but shouldn't melee vs ranged be balanced the entire way, from level 1 up? I mean, if we're going to discuss it it needs to be an overhaul at a level where the result is at no point is one clearly better than the other.

And I don't think GGG can do that. I think they would have by now if they could.

Even if they could they would somehow find a way to fail.


Also you remember what happened to "The Derek Zoolander Center For Devs Who Can't Melee Good And Who Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too." Some guy name Chris ran in shouting how it was a center for ants and claimed that anything range, spell, or totem needed at least 3 more of everything that melee has. then the center caught fire and was overrun by zebras. The point is pizza can have pineapple on it.

And smile more this is POE for fuck's sake

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鬼殺し написал:

And I don't think GGG can do that. :) I think they would have by now if they could.

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Chris написал:

There's a common misconception in the community that our balance team doesn't play Path of Exile. They actually do play it, a whole lot. We have people with level 100 hardcore characters, multiple famous community members who have come to work for us and you may not even know it. The minimum requirement to join our QA team is 1000 hours of PoE experience, and we still turn people with that prerequisite away if they're not good enough at the game. Our design, balance and QA team are experts at Path of Exile. I would not accept any less. They put substantial work into each change, planning out not only what it affects now, but what it affects in the future.

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bionicg2040 написал:

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鬼殺し написал:

That's impressive but shouldn't melee vs ranged be balanced the entire way, from level 1 up? I mean, if we're going to discuss it it needs to be an overhaul at a level where the result is at no point is one clearly better than the other.

And I don't think GGG can do that. I think they would have by now if they could.

Even if they could they would somehow find a way to fail.


Also you remember what happened to "The Derek Zoolander Center For Devs Who Can't Melee Good And Who Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too." Some guy name Chris ran in shouting how it was a center for ants and claimed that anything range, spell, or totem needed at least 3 more of everything that melee has. then the center caught fire and was overrun by zebras. The point is pizza can have pineapple on it.

And smile more this is POE for fuck's sake

Well, one day, the smiles will die, and then PoE will fade slowly from everyones interest...

Why not try to solve game's problems and keep it alive? Maybe even prepare a succesor if certain limitations can't be addressed...

You always have epic replies, but sadly, that doesn't make the need to improve the lacklustre aspects of PoE any less relevant...

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EnvisionaryLunacy написал:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1985677




best shaper killer build is melee

he uses a 2h sword to hit insane dps amounts on the boss

and a diff 2h sword to flicker spam insta kill any trash

melee is fine-


don't make melee ranged, then it is not melee anymore ,kind of takes the point out of it lol

first:
"always on full life ticked"
"all dps flask ticked"

Guess what, I put aways that and the dps is divided by 2.
Don t tell me you are always on full life even with vaal pact it is imposible with degen maps.

Then yes it is a great boss killer build but:
your argument is Melee is fine you just need 15 ex X2 swords to play with it... lol just lol.
Ok it is an exageration, of course melee would be fine just with one of thsoe swords. You just need 15 ex.

Personally I think the problem with melee is the core mechanics of the game.
The fact that when you use the majority of skills in the game you stand still, that the default attack animation for every weapon is single target, and identical across all weapon types.

Not only does this have difficulty dealing with the large number of enemies, but it also puts you in a very dangerous position. Standing still is the quickest way to die.
Ranged attacks and spells at least get a delay between when an attack is used and when it reaches the player, giving them ample time to react and move.
However being in melee gives you no such defense. The closer you are to your enemy, the more dangerous it is for you. Making standing still in melee extremely dangerous.

The only melee skills that do tend to work well are ones that are functionally melee spells, with good range, natural AOE, and high damage. Everything else may as well not exist. The mechanics of the game simply don't support them.


If GGG were to ever take a stab at across the board fixing the melee problem, without having to redesign most melee skills, I think the thing they would have to do is to have most if not all melee skills inherently have movement built into them.
So that you can attack and move at the same time. (even if it's not far)
IE that you can reposition yourself as you attack, so that your not in a constant state of peril, so that you can avoid attacks to a reasonable extent. So that your positioning matters.

TL:DR I believe move movement would solve most of the problems with melee. And that it should be built into melee as a inherit mechanics of these skills.

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鬼殺し написал:

^_^

That's impressive but shouldn't melee vs ranged be balanced the entire way, from level 1 up? :) I mean, if we're going to discuss it it needs to be an overhaul at a level where the result is at no point is one clearly better than the other. :)

And I don't think GGG can do that. :) I think they would have by now if they could. :)

:D

I'm sure they could do it, if they wanted.

'Bout time they started wanting.

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鬼殺し написал:

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Ceryneian написал:

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鬼殺し написал:

And I don't think GGG can do that. :) I think they would have by now if they could.

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Chris написал:

There's a common misconception in the community that our balance team doesn't play Path of Exile. They actually do play it, a whole lot. We have people with level 100 hardcore characters, multiple famous community members who have come to work for us and you may not even know it. The minimum requirement to join our QA team is 1000 hours of PoE experience, and we still turn people with that prerequisite away if they're not good enough at the game. Our design, balance and QA team are experts at Path of Exile. I would not accept any less. They put substantial work into each change, planning out not only what it affects now, but what it affects in the future.

So?

So - GGG can do it. Why are you doubting their capability? This is a professional gaming company, whose design, balance and QA team are experts at the game - Chris would not accept anything less!

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鬼殺し написал:

And that's where this ends. Player demand will keep ranged over melee because the steps necessary to rectify that would *shred* player retention.

What retention?

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Ceryneian написал:

So - GGG can do it. Why are you doubting their capability? This is a professional gaming company, whose design, balance and QA team are experts at the game - Chris would not accept anything less!

Gameplay expertise of their QA team can at best guarantee that they know what currently works well and what doesn't, not that they're also willing to fix it or can realistically do it within their constraints.