Boosting lich spawn rate is pointless.

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Mikrotherion написал:

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ScrappyJim написал:

Each map can already only spawn one Depth. Nothing was ever said about having multiple depths per map. It would mean you would have less maps with just troves having more maps spawning with a depth. Instead of running 20 maps to see one depth you would run, say, 4 maps and see a depths which is much better.

And because each map can only have one Depth there's a threshold value for them to appear, which is determined by the amount of maps that do not have one of either trials or some masters and whatnot. So if they doubled the chance for a Depth to appear that might not actually mean that you'd have twice as many Depths.
If you double the rate at which Liches can appear, however, you will have twice as many of them. They're still supposed to be rare, though, so in any case you won't encounter a Lich in every Depth and you won't find a Depth in every area that could potentially spawn one.

Doubling their spawn rate does not mean you will see twice as many lich unless their original rate is 50% (it's not). Again, nothing was said about guaranteeing anything. Chance means chance. Increasing depths rate means higher rate in appearance because nothin was wrong with lich spawns to begin with. You are arguing that Lich spawn rate was broken and it wasn't. I actually have the experience of hardcore grinding maps specifically for Depths. I've had hundreds of maps with potential spawns that just gave troves. For example, yesterday I ran (give or take a few/excluding Zana missions) ~100 maps I'd say around 50 of them had potential but I only saw 5 depths and had one lich. This is exactly the same rate I saw before patch. Again, nothing was said about any doubling guaranteed.

You're making my head hurt. Stop it.

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ScrappyJim написал:

Doubling their spawn rate does not mean you will see twice as many lich unless their original rate is 50% (it's not).

I'll quote Bleu42 here:
"That is so absolutely incorrect I'm inclined to believe you're just joking around."

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ScrappyJim написал:

Again, nothing was said about guaranteeing anything. Chance means chance. Increasing depths rate means higher rate in appearance because nothin was wrong with lich spawns to begin with.

While chance does not mean guaranteed outcome, in the long run doubling the chance of any outcome (for example lich spawn) will double the amount of liches you encounter. It's irrelevant whether the starting chance was 1% or 0,00001% as long as the undoubled chance was below 50% (since a chance of more than 100% would not have any noticeable result).
You can easily test it yourself. Take one die (regular d6). The chance of throwing a 3 is 1/6. Throw the die 100 times, noting how many 3s (and if you want all other throws as well) you get. The amount will be around 16 (provided the die is hasn't been messed with, its a novelty die or something weird) 3s (and 4s and 5s and so on). The theoretical number of 3s is 16,666666... and the more throws you make the closer the result will be to that.
Now take 2 dice. The chance of at least ONE 3 is: 2 · 1/6 = 2/6 = 1/3 - so even though the chance of a 3 was NOT 50%, doubling the chance of rolling at least one 3 by adding another die will double the amount of 3s you'll find. You can test this again with just rolling the 2 dice 100 times. You'll get at least one 3 about 33 times (and again, the same for 4s, 5s and so on)

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ScrappyJim написал:

You are arguing that Lich spawn rate was broken and it wasn't.

I'm not. I'm arguing that under the circumstances of not all areas being able to actually have a Depth, the lich spawn rate was too low and that was why they increased it.

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ScrappyJim написал:

I actually have the experience of hardcore grinding maps specifically for Depths. I've had hundreds of maps with potential spawns that just gave troves. For example, yesterday I ran (give or take a few/excluding Zana missions) ~100 maps I'd say around 50 of them had potential but I only saw 5 depths and had one lich. This is exactly the same rate I saw before patch. Again, nothing was said about any doubling guaranteed.

That's a lot of guessing here and the sample size is quite low (5 depths) - you can't draw any conclusions from that (and to me (1 lich so far) a rate of 1/5 seems quite high, I wasn't as lucky - but what I said about your guesstimate above is also true for mine... sample size is too low to draw any conclusions; if you throw your die only 10 times, you won't get 3 of each number, you might not get, say, a 1 at all, which of course does not mean that the chance to get a 1 is 0).

I'm not saying, neither, that increasing the probability of an area spawning a Depth would not help at all. It's probably just not as effective or easy to adjust because of the bug, since this will prevent a Depth from spawning EVEN THOUGH the "die" rolled "Depth".
On the other hand, when you double the rate of Liches spawning, you roll the die whenever a Depth spawns (and perhaps even when it is prevented from spawning, but that's irrelevant) so it directly influences how many liches you will encounter.
If the chance before the patch was 1 in 100 Depths, it's now 2(,25) in 100 - that's still no guarantee (far from it). And if the chance was 6 in 100 it's now 13,5 in 100 - which is still no guarantee and if you're unlucky you'll still go a long time without any liches.

Dice. grab 3 die. Each dice represents an abyssal crack. Rolling a 3 would spawn a depths. The most cracks I've had in a map I believe was 4.

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Mikrotherion написал:

doubling the chance of rolling at least one 3 by adding another die will double the amount of 3s you'll find.

that would make the chance of rolling one 3.
Only assuming the number of chances you roll are doubled.
So now while you initially had 1/6 four times to roll a depths you would now receive 1/3 four times making 33% and more favorable outcome than 16% and since the problem was NOT LICH SPAWNS..

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Qarl написал:

There is (and has been) a bug where Maps that contain The Elder, Elder Guardians, Labyrinth Trials or master missions that have a subarea are not able to contain Abyssal Depths.

but the spawns of Depths themselves the Liches still retain their respective rarity values whilst still increasing their chance of spawn.

You must also include the factor of the large number of cracks that should've been but can't be Depths. So when the chance circumstances arise allowing a depths the chance of spawning should be increased. If The next three maps made were all capable with 3 cracks each and all of which were troves that gives a 0% outcome of lich. If only one of those were rolled depths there would be a 10% that one of those 9 spawn a lich. 1:9 is much better than 0:9 . doubling 0:9 is still 0:9.

As I wrote before, they could have increased the chance of a Depth to appear, but it's harder to calculate with that because some Depths that should be created cannot be created.

When you increase the rate at which Liches can spawn, you directly increase the number of Liches, since those Depths that do appear now have a bigger chance to have a Lich.
When you increase the rate at which Dephts can spawn and leave the chance of them spawning a Lich alone, you will also - indirectly - increase the number of Liches.
But because of the bug and because there can only be 1 Depth per area, scaling Lich encounters by increasing the chance to get a Depths does not work the same way increasing the chance of a Depth having a Lich does.

Coming back to the thread title - it is not pointless to increase the probability for Liches to spawn, it does exactly what it's meant to do i.e. increase the number of Lich encounters.
It was not the only way to achieve this, sure.

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ScrappyJim написал:

1:9 is much better than 0:9 . doubling 0:9 is still 0:9.

Sure, if you build your argument on a false premise, then you're right.
It's trivial to see that a high chance for a Lich in a Depth that does not exist does not do any good.
However, the chance for a Depth is not 0, thus your argument is flawed.

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Mikrotherion написал:

As I wrote before, they could have increased the chance of a Depth to appear, but it's harder to calculate with that because some Depths that should be created cannot be created.

When you increase the rate at which Liches can spawn, you directly increase the number of Liches, since those Depths that do appear now have a bigger chance to have a Lich.
When you increase the rate at which Dephts can spawn and leave the chance of them spawning a Lich alone, you will also - indirectly - increase the number of Liches.
But because of the bug and because there can only be 1 Depth per area, scaling Lich encounters by increasing the chance to get a Depths does not work the same way increasing the chance of a Depth having a Lich does.

Coming back to the thread title - it is not pointless to increase the probability for Liches to spawn, it does exactly what it's meant to do i.e. increase the number of Lich encounters.
It was not the only way to achieve this, sure.

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ScrappyJim написал:

1:9 is much better than 0:9 . doubling 0:9 is still 0:9.

Sure, if you build your argument on a false premise, then you're right.
It's trivial to see that a high chance for a Lich in a Depth that does not exist does not do any good.
However, the chance for a Depth is not 0, thus your argument is flawed.

for someone that like maths, you seem to do alot of guessing, asume and project false information lol

you need to relax you dont know the real values.


Sure, if you build your argument on a false premise, then you're right. << all your claims are base on this lol

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noheal написал:

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Mikrotherion написал:

As I wrote before, they could have increased the chance of a Depth to appear, but it's harder to calculate with that because some Depths that should be created cannot be created.

When you increase the rate at which Liches can spawn, you directly increase the number of Liches, since those Depths that do appear now have a bigger chance to have a Lich.
When you increase the rate at which Dephts can spawn and leave the chance of them spawning a Lich alone, you will also - indirectly - increase the number of Liches.
But because of the bug and because there can only be 1 Depth per area, scaling Lich encounters by increasing the chance to get a Depths does not work the same way increasing the chance of a Depth having a Lich does.

Coming back to the thread title - it is not pointless to increase the probability for Liches to spawn, it does exactly what it's meant to do i.e. increase the number of Lich encounters.
It was not the only way to achieve this, sure.

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ScrappyJim написал:

1:9 is much better than 0:9 . doubling 0:9 is still 0:9.

Sure, if you build your argument on a false premise, then you're right.
It's trivial to see that a high chance for a Lich in a Depth that does not exist does not do any good.
However, the chance for a Depth is not 0, thus your argument is flawed.

for someone that like maths, you seem to do alot of guessing, asume and project false information lol

you need to relax you dont know the real values.


Sure, if you build your argument on a false premise, then you're right. << all your claims are base on this lol

So please enlighten us (or me, if you were talking to me). I think I explained my thoughts over the last few pages.

So that's why I have had so many lich spawns. I rarely and i mean rarely get masters or trials to spawn in my maps. Zana I think is probably the rarest. I might only see her once or twice in a week. Dont really care though. Only thing that ever drops is the belt. The only item I've ever gotten than the belt is the helm.

i have one lvl 91 and one lvl 92 charachter in abyss and today i finally found the echoing shrine. i never understood why a shrine you can use for 30 seconds is so rare.

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Mikrotherion написал:

As I wrote before, they could have increased the chance of a Depth to appear, but it's harder to calculate with that because some Depths that should be created cannot be created.

When you increase the rate at which Liches can spawn, you directly increase the number of Liches, since those Depths that do appear now have a bigger chance to have a Lich.
When you increase the rate at which Dephts can spawn and leave the chance of them spawning a Lich alone, you will also - indirectly - increase the number of Liches.
But because of the bug and because there can only be 1 Depth per area, scaling Lich encounters by increasing the chance to get a Depths does not work the same way increasing the chance of a Depth having a Lich does.

Coming back to the thread title - it is not pointless to increase the probability for Liches to spawn, it does exactly what it's meant to do i.e. increase the number of Lich encounters.
It was not the only way to achieve this, sure.

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ScrappyJim написал:

1:9 is much better than 0:9 . doubling 0:9 is still 0:9.

Sure, if you build your argument on a false premise, then you're right.
It's trivial to see that a high chance for a Lich in a Depth that does not exist does not do any good.
However, the chance for a Depth is not 0, thus your argument is flawed.

Again you are putting words in my mouth. Nothing was said about the chance of depths being zero. Increasing the the chance of lich spawns does not increase the quantity because there is no guarantee one will spawn. Since I only played a few hours last night I ran 56 maps. Of those 56 38 could potentially spawn a depths but 6 had zero cracks. Out of those 38 I had 5 Depths and one lich spawn (wheres my double rate? it's the same as pre-patch). I also had 33 troves in maps without depths. I pretty positive that if more depths spawned I would've at least found 1 depth with a Lich within those 33. If the rate was increased even 100% on depths don't you think there would've been at least one lich? You're only going off theoretical numbers not counting on RNGs influence. After all RNG is RNG. yes only one Lich can spawn per map giving you only one chance per map for them but depths have multiple chances being one per crack. There'd be a better chance of receiving one depth per map or two than seeing a lich.

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Mikrotherion написал:

thus your argument is flawed.

Much like your dice comparison. Before you roll that dice you better program it to statistically roll everything but 3 far more often or use weighted dice.
If some maps can't spawn Depths it's better to give the ones that can spawn them a higher chance of it. Because that was the problem. Not Lich rate.

Fill in the blank
The better the chance of finding a Depths then the better the chance of finding a ____.