[Archived] Moosseolini's Holy Relics Guardian

Why are we using 2 trigger attack spells? Is cyclone just for life gain on hit?
In your underground seas video, you re just playing with static strike

Hi there,

Ok. I did a lot of reading and comparing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

My HolyRelics have a Skill Cooldown of 0.4
DesperoOrtells HolyRelics have a Skill Cooldown of 0.33

This is because of the Divergent Version with a Quality of 20% what means they have 20% Increased Cooldown Recovery Rate.

An ideal APS (Attacks Per Second) from the Cyclone would be for normal Holy Relics:
1/.4 = 2.5 APS
or
2/.4 = 5 APS
or
3/.4 = 7.5 APS

And for the Divergent HolyRelics:
1/.33 = 3.03 APS
2/.33 = 6.06 APS
3/.33 = 9.09 APS

DesperoOrtell has 6.01 APS in his PoB. So this is minimal slower than 6.06 and therefore is perfect.

I have 6.55 APS according to my PoB. This is too fast for 2/0.4 = 5 APS and too slow for 3/0.4 = 7.5 APS.
Ideally I should aim for 4.9 or 7.4 APS.

Is that correct? And if yes, for which should I aim? I think it should make no difference.

I did some testing in PoB. And I cant see a change in "Minion, Average Damage" or "Minion, Total DPS" when I optimize my Cyclone APS.

Is that normal?

Its not that easy to get to 4.9 or 7.4 APS for me. But next league I will also go for Divergent SHR and will take care of a suitable APS for my Minion Skill Cooldown.

Please let me know if I am correct and if its normal that PoB makes no changes in Average damage and Total DPS even if I optimize the APS of Cyclone.

A last thing that I dont understand:

My PoB:
Minion: Attack/Cast Rate: 1.45
DesperoOrtells PoB:
Minion: Attack/Cast Rate: 1.2

Why? I cant find a reason for that. And doas this make a (huge) difference?

My PoB:
https://pastebin.com/qYTFMNN2

DesperoOrtells PoB:
https://pastebin.com/Xmg84TAb

I am so really thankful for your help :thumbsup:

"

Cerri написал:

Hi there,
I have 6.55 APS according to my PoB. This is too fast for 2/0.4 = 5 APS and too slow for 3/0.4 = 7.5 APS.
Ideally I should aim for 4.9 or 7.4 APS.

Is that correct? And if yes, for which should I aim? I think it should make no difference.

That's right, for the sake of DPS, choose whichever is easier to get to (reducing or increasing it), but higher APS means more on hit effects triggering (Life gain on Hit for example)

"

Cerri написал:

I did some testing in PoB. And I cant see a change in "Minion, Average Damage" or "Minion, Total DPS" when I optimize my Cyclone APS.

Is that normal?

Its not that easy to get to 4.9 or 7.4 APS for me. But next league I will also go for Divergent SHR and will take care of a suitable APS for my Minion Skill Cooldown.

Please let me know if I am correct and if its normal that PoB makes no changes in Average damage and Total DPS even if I optimize the APS of Cyclone.

A last thing that I dont understand:

My PoB:
Minion: Attack/Cast Rate: 1.45
DesperoOrtells PoB:
Minion: Attack/Cast Rate: 1.2

Why? I cant find a reason for that. And doas this make a (huge) difference?

My PoB:
https://pastebin.com/qYTFMNN2

DesperoOrtells PoB:
https://pastebin.com/Xmg84TAb

I am so really thankful for your help :thumbsup:

Regarding PoB, it does not calculate Holy Relic DPS correctly, to do it you have to calculate yourself, since the Total Damage it shows is taking Attack/Cast Rate into consideration and Holy Relic do not use it, the formula is:

Maximum Possible DPS = (Average Damage / Holy Relic Cooldown) * 2 Holy Relics

Another thing is it won't take your APS into consideration, so the DPS above is the Maximum Possible DPS you can get, but it'll only be effective if you manage to get your APS close/under to the specific values you calculated before

"

Cerri написал:

I have 6.55 APS according to my PoB. This is too fast for 2/0.4 = 5 APS and too slow for 3/0.4 = 7.5 APS.
Ideally I should aim for 4.9 or 7.4 APS.

Is that correct? And if yes, for which should I aim? I think it should make no difference.

I did some testing in PoB. And I cant see a change in "Minion, Average Damage" or "Minion, Total DPS" when I optimize my Cyclone APS.

Is that normal?

Its not that easy to get to 4.9 or 7.4 APS for me. But next league I will also go for Divergent SHR and will take care of a suitable APS for my Minion Skill Cooldown.

Please let me know if I am correct and if its normal that PoB makes no changes in Average damage and Total DPS even if I optimize the APS of Cyclone.

A last thing that I dont understand:

My PoB:
Minion: Attack/Cast Rate: 1.45
DesperoOrtells PoB:
Minion: Attack/Cast Rate: 1.2

Why? I cant find a reason for that. And doas this make a (huge) difference?

1) The APS you should be aiming for is correct, either 4.9 or 7.4. If it's equally difficult to get to both, then I would prefer a higher APS as it benefits more from Life gain on Hit and is also more consistent.

2) PoB unfortunately does not calculate the actual DPS for Summon Holy Relic, so you will have to look at manually calculating your true DPS. Assuming you get the APS pretty close to optimal, there will be a negligible damage loss of a few percent in comparison to your damage ceiling.

3) The cool thing about PoB is that you can see exactly how you got to 1.45 minion attack/cast rate on your relics. Under 'Calcs' go to Summon Holy Relic and tick on 'Show Minion Stats'. Then you can hover over the Inc. Cast Speed cell and you will see that you get 20% from the ascendancy and 25% from your staff.

Minion attack/cast speed does nothing for Summon Holy Relic unfortunately so I would avoid getting this stat.

I am quite a bit overlevelled but this is where I am at the beginning of A9 at lvl64 https://pastebin.com/sxbg09Ss perhaps it's worth adding it as a levelling tree? This is SFF and while I didn't set it up as hardcore I have not died in combat even once -- I only died once to a sawblade in an early trial. Hate them.

Once I am actually done with A10 Kitava I will fix the fire res to be 76%, not hard at all since the helmet has 26% fire res crafted on it.

I haven't moved to Staves yet, that'd require better gear suffixes wise.

The order of notables is approximately:

Discipline and Training, Gravepact, Resolute Technique, Devotion, Righteous Army, Purity Of Flesh, Barbarism, Sovereignty, Fearsome Force, Combat Stamina, Tireless, Sanctum Of Thought, Retribution, Juggernaut, Constitution or Annointed Flesh depending on how you feel.

I will continue with grabbing the "Minions have 25% chance to gain Unholy Might on Kill" mastery, Spiritual Command then on to Staves as hopefully better rings and belt materialize. Then I will toss the character and redo it again on Friday in trade league :D

Hi BeeaK,
Hi Moosseolini,

Many thanks for your help. Now I understand a lot better. Thats pretty cool. So I am really looking forward to the new season with this new info. :-)

"

Minion attack/cast speed does nothing for Summon Holy Relic unfortunately so I would avoid getting this stat.

This was also not clear to me. Many thanks for the info.

It is also really cool to get more and more used to PoB. I really appreciate that. :-)

In my PoB I am using a Silver Flask. This is because I thought that more attack speed is always good to trigger whatever could be triggered. ;-)
With Onslaught active I have 7.33 APS. This would be closer to 7.5 (3/0.4 = 7.5) and would much better than 6.55 (without Onslaught).
But I am not sure if I should go with that cause I cannot guarantee that it is always up. Specially in Boss fights.
So I am pretty sure I should use another flask and look for better APS generally. Right?

In your build guide you are using "Commandment of the Grave".
"The enchantment will allow us to conditionally trigger the onslaught from Radiant Crusade"

Unfortunately I was never able to get this enchantment because of bad luck.

But if I would manage to get this, I should take care of this and calculate the "Onslaught" into my APS / Nova Skill calculation. Right?

If I understand Radiant Crusade correcly:
With 1-4 nearby Allies I and my Allies deal 10% more damage. (Minions also count as Allies and would deal 10% more damage)
With 5 or more nearby Allies I would have Onslaught.

I am not sure what is better.
Onslaught for me or 10% more damage for my minions.
Isnt it better to go without that glove enchantment?

Wondering if I can do the same tree but start as necro. Does anyone have an opinion on this scenario?

Thanks for the guide, it looks like promising and fun.


After checking your "min-maxing" section, necromancer looks like stronger with a lot more (insane?) damages and with great defenses too. Do i miss something?


How confident are you with very late game content like simulacrum 30, the feared, and things like that?

"

Cerri написал:

In my PoB I am using a Silver Flask. This is because I thought that more attack speed is always good to trigger whatever could be triggered. ;-)
With Onslaught active I have 7.33 APS. This would be closer to 7.5 (3/0.4 = 7.5) and would much better than 6.55 (without Onslaught).
But I am not sure if I should go with that cause I cannot guarantee that it is always up. Specially in Boss fights.
So I am pretty sure I should use another flask and look for better APS generally. Right?

An onslaught flask could work for mapping, but you're unlikely to always have it ready for bosses, which will hurt your DPS. The guardian ascendancy already has onslaught if you have 5 minions. In the past, some people crafted their staff with an Essence of Insanity for 3 additional permanent minions to make this work.

I think the easiest (but not cheapest) solution to your problem would be to get rid of the faster attacks on your gloves and redo the crafted mods on your staff with +2 support gems and 15% increased attack speed. This should put you at 4.95 APS.

"

Cerri написал:

If I understand Radiant Crusade correcly:
With 1-4 nearby Allies I and my Allies deal 10% more damage. (Minions also count as Allies and would deal 10% more damage)
With 5 or more nearby Allies I would have Onslaught.

With 5 or more nearby allies, you get both Onslaught and 10% more damage.

"

L00n написал:

Wondering if I can do the same tree but start as necro. Does anyone have an opinion on this scenario?

Necro start will work too. You can use the Early Mapping tree for Guardian to guide your progression for the Necro tree.