What are your thoughts on the current amount of death penalties in game

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KuroSF#6521 написал:

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GGG seems to detest the idea of consistent progress without a huge time wasting penalty on failure, which is all these penalties do. They set back your time, and that is nothing else than demoralizing. After 20+ years gaming I have a hard time figuring out why devs add mechanics that motivate me to play something else

This is not at all what I think the death penalties are about.

People play this game *hardcore*, which means they never die at all. WHich means playing to not die very often is pretty damn practical, if not easy.

It's a CHOCIE to play the game in a way that causes lots of risk and death, and GGG thinks playing this way devalues the game.

You may not agree with them on this point, but GGG is *NOT* trying to stop you from making progress. They are showing you how to make progress. Stop dying.

It's not GGG making the game unpalitable... it's insistance on refusing to adapt to the rules of the game that is making it unpalitable, and nothing GGG can do will ever fix this for you, because if they fix this issue there will be another choice they made you dont like and don't want to adapt to. Somehow people have learned they can't sit in clearfell killing level 5 mobs forever and still reach 100. At some point they will learn to stop dying to make progress.

POE1/2, thankfully, are not trophy hand-out Oprah giveaway games, where everyone gets a car. They are games with challenge, and there are not enough of them in the industry, so I cherish the constraints they've put in, including the XP penalty on death.

We know that is false due to Jonathans interview, it's just the race to 100 bs.

Death EXP lose is nothing new or spezial to PoE 2. It's a very common concept "consequens" in many (A)RPGs.

And it is fine!

If you play content that is above your char-skill, your-skill or simply your chars-level there is no reason not to have any consequense for head-on perma diing.

If you play aprobiat content you will not die very often. And the view times you du, you lose a tiny bit of EXP but over all you will be net-positive.

If you play content far below your level you will never die but the gain is very lwo too.

Sound very balanced to me :).

So if you perma die and can not gain progression ...it is a YOU problem. Not a game problem.

Instead of playing max pimped T16 maps, tryjust T16 low or no pimmped maps. Still to hard go back to T15 or even T14 mmaps. You might get less exp peer monster killed but at last you will get exp up on your next level up or an itemm-upgrade drobs.

Exp lose is easy to avoid. Only thing you have get over is your greed :D.

If you kill the boss, and die from a DoT, an enemy, or a level mechanic like random lightning bolts or some thing or creature which explodes... Even if you respawn at the checkpoint 20 feet away from where you died next to the boss, you lose all the loot that dropped. And the game checks off a box saying you killed the boss so he does not respawn either.

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frette#3669 написал:

It's not enough!

As soon as you portal into a map, there should be AT LEAST a 30% chance for a Volatile immediately exploding for 100k damage into your face and killing you and randomly up to 5 of your other characters!

we should lose all of the gear we had on too. Which is not such a big deal, since rare item drops for the gear we find are mostly loaded with modifiers of Tier 1 & 2. Plus our gear is usually 20 to 30 levels below our character level anyway.

XP loss is fine.

1 life per map - not a big fan. I like 6 portals due to one shots. And this applies to bosses as well. Spend X hours to farm fragments for boss to get one tapped and loose everything is not fun. On bosses HP should reset on death, but have more 6 portals.

On death effects - remove them. Or reduce their damage, because they one tap as well. If you leave them make them very clear. Because in some maps / instances they are invisible

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Schakar#4083 написал:

Death EXP lose is nothing new or spezial to PoE 2. It's a very common concept "consequens" in many (A)RPGs.

And it is fine!
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It's a hold over mechanic going all the way back to Text Based MUD's when it wasn't possible to make challenging content, so the punishments were there to keep things interesting.

Games have been getting away from punishments for a long time now, and they need to be left in the past.

Make a game challenging, and there is no need for punishments.
The most challenging games have no (or very slight) punishments.

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 написал:

A "prestige" thing would be allowing players to continue past 100 for extra bonuses.

Simply getting to level cap should never be gated with penalties in a PVE game.

Ever.

It makes no sense whatsoever and is one of the primary reasons people quit.

depends how you look at level cap i think. i know what ur saying and in a lot of game genres thats standard practice.

i dont play them but its my understanding that in most mmos you hit level cap and then play the endgame?

diablo 3 copied this in a way you get to max level at 60 at first, its now 70, and then the endgame begins, you level paragon etc.






but this game comes from the D2 vibe, its very different. the idea is that levels for most people just go on forever, and if you were ever insane enough to hit the level cap you would most likely just stop playing the character.

its not you hit 60, ur capped, and now you grind endgame and get paragon levels. its you hit 60 and then the 60-100 is like the endless paragon grind. when poe1 released they said they expected it to take a year before the first lvl100 was reached.

its just a different design space, different mindset. basically you never reach max level, you never have a perfect rare item, its just how far towards that can you get this time before youre done with the character? or you die in hc.




ive played poe1 for 20k hours and ive never got to lvl100. i dont see it as a goal because its the end and i dont think an arpg should have an end? i make my own end when i get bored and decide to stop playing the character, i dont want the game to put an end in front of me before i decide im done.

in d3 or an mmo level cap is sort of the beginning, its not the end, so its a fundamentally different concept of what level cap is. im not saying either are right or wrong, its just different. unlike d3 and d4 this is a true diablo-like game, its an arpg in the vein of diablo 1 and 2 and this is what level cap means in that genre. for 99.9% of players it exists to be something so far away you never get there and for the 0.01% who are insane enough to get there it exists to be something super far to get to that puts them in the 0.01% for achieving.

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Mouser#2899 написал:

Make a game challenging, and there is no need for punishments.
The most challenging games have no (or very slight) punishments.

Name 3 examples.

It is fine, but a crash with missing texture is considered a death and loses 10% xp even though it's content I can do without dying. I have lost a ton of XP to it and it hurts very bad at lvl 93. I think I am going to take a break from the game.

However, if I'm frozen and about to die. I can hit escape and exit to the character selection screen without taking a death penalty. It's odd that a crash will, but manually logging out, won't. GG.

I am one of those players who likes to find his own build and get it to lvl 100. For me death penalties are mostly fine. They make Lvl 100 desirable to me and that's a major part of why I play. I remember in poe in affliction league getting to lvl 100 was extremely easy using shrines. I did not even attempt lvl 100 in that league. It wasn't worth anymore.

I see death in game as the game's way of telling me what my build lacks, i patch it up and I stop dying till there is something else that I lack. Soon enough I would have patched most of the things and I stop dying as much. So penalties are fine coz the whole idea is to make them irrelevant by getting to a point where i don't die.

The issue i have is lack of opportunities to die XD. Meaning not enough maps. Too much grind and tedium required to set things up and chances to even see some of the bosses are few and far between.