The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

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MEITTI#3999 написал:

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Orion_3T#9801 написал:

To put my cards on the table, I like that you only get 1 portal for maps. I think it's fine that you only get 1 chance at the map mechanics. Though it might be nice if you could try again against bosses, I'm actually fine with those being 1 chance as well.

And my point was that alone is not enough for punishment because the map sustain is rather easy right now. Removing Xp penalty right now would make players YOLO high tier maps immediatly, they would immediatly start playing the game badly, intentionally so because it still gives more loot and xp anyway.

And why, exactly, would that be such a Bad Thing(tm)?

Players should WANT to challenge maps where they have a good chance (30-50%) of dying.

The punishments make that impossible. The "risk vs reward" is completely out of whack.

If they take on maps beyond their ability, they won't be able to clear them. No punishment needed.

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MEITTI#3999 написал:

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Orion_3T#9801 написал:

People keep saying this but I reject the premise outright. It was absolutely a problem in those games - for me.

Thats fine, but its not a problem for most people

Perhaps not for most of the people who actually stuck around - but as someone who has enjoyed many games regarded as difficult it was a massive put-off for both games and I am very confident I'm not alone.

D2 wasn't a live service so not much point people complaining about it there. And POE1 had been around long enough that any new players wouldn't feel like it was worth giving feedback on.

POE2 is a whole different and new game specifically asking for feedback, and it's made strides to broaden its appeal. And Jonathan has specifically said they will be looking at it again. Which suggests they might actually be receptive to discussion on the matter.

That's why it didn't seem a problem on the other games - people just quietly left or didn't even try them and didn't bother trying to change them.

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and the mechanic exists so that people wouldn't learn bad behaviours.

Wow, you make it sound like Wackford Squeers' Dotheboys Hall School for Boys.

It's a game, not school and not a job. It's supposed to be fun not something that tries to discipline its players.

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If Souls games wouldn't have you retrieve your souls on death, then most players would never learn to be cautious players in those games. They would always Yolo every single corridor and step into every single trap all the time because death doesn't matter.

In souls-likes it's the only two things that happen on death - you drop your currency and the monsters respawn. And since you made it that far once, and have only learned the area better since, you stand an excellent chance of making it there again to recover them.

But I think the key difference for me is that you drop your stuff where you died and that actively encourages you to go back and try again. If you fight your way there you are probably getting richer each time and if the stakes get too high you can always bone out or wear the ring/charm that prevents loss.

In souls-likes the loss encourages you to keep trying. And usually if you do so you will succeed and end up having lost nothing. In POE2 it absolutely does the opposite.

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Toforto#2372 написал:

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

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Toforto#2372 написал:

Yea pretty crazy that the holidays are over, early access isn’t brand new, and it’s the middle of the work week. Watch those numbers jump again after the next content patch. Crazy

The numbers were still dropping during the holidays when people have the most time to play lmao

Every single day the game has been losing players since launch. Every day the Avg. Player Number on steamcharts has been going down. That's horrible retention.

No shit do you not know how game releases work? Is this your first time looking at steam db? Have any good examples of games that retain their full peak numbers on release weeks afterwards? Breaking records, this guys like,”yeah but the numbers are going down now”

200k on steam on a Thursday morning is fuckin phenomenal. “horrible retention”.

Wanna see horrible retention? go look at the competitions numbers

One important reason why mechanics that make you lose something like XP on death is because building your character and playing it trying to avoid death becomes rewarding. If you lose nothing on death other than a few seconds to get back into killing mobs, builds that are super-focused on offense and killing stuff as fast as possible become much more rewarding than any other build because dying a lot will still not incur you any penalty in the gear/XP race vs builds that are more defensive and die very little or never while killing slower.

I don't mind xp loss on death personally. At the end of the day I feel like it makes reaching level 100 mean more than just " played xxx hours ". It now contains a skill element or at the least it shows your build is capable of not dying too often.

My issue here is that they punish dying on multiple levels. I remember in POE 1 I would quit leagues where my build wasn't very good because it died too often whereas good builds I would play a lot more. Dying in a game is an inherently negative experience no matter how you turn it. You don't need to layer more bad stuff on top of an allready bad experience. A player can only take so much punishment. Everyone has a different tolerance here.

GGG needs to pick their poison here. Ideally, for me, xp loss remains and we go back to 6 portals. I like a high level to be an achievement, that is to me a benefit. Just get rid of all the other death penalties.

You can do it mouser just keep at it man, 30000 more R1’s and you can try all
The hard content you want! I BELIEVE IN YOU!

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Toforto#2372 написал:

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Poe2WarriorMan#6401 написал:

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So far all your suggestions and complaints have culminated to you suggesting we should make the game excessively easy.

Pretty much all they want and it isn’t gonna happen

Nobody is asking the game to be "easier". People are just asking for it to respect their time and be an actually fun game. Enjoy your ruthless player numbers in a few months if nothing changes, this game is doomed if GGG stick to the vision lmao

Getting punished when you die = hard
Just to be clear, you are asking for the game to be easier, which is fine if thats what you want, but theres no need to try and protect your ego from whats obvious.

Next they will start making posts on elden ring forums complaining about reaching max level in elden ring being too hard

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Orion_3T#9801 написал:

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D2 wasn't a live service so not much point people complaining about it there. And POE1 had been around long enough that any new players wouldn't feel like it was worth giving feedback on.

WRONG, new players since the beginning of Poe and throughout its entire lifetime have been giving feedback asking for xp loss to go away, this has not stopped for over 10 years. You guys are just the next batch of new players that have to figure it out.

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Nyon#6673 написал:

Getting punished when you die = hard
Just to be clear, you are asking for the game to be easier, which is fine if thats what you want, but theres no need to try and protect your ego from whats obvious.

No. Getting punished when you die = punishing.

Challenge is what you face before you die. Punishment comes after.

A hard game is challenging.

The punishments make the game easier for two reasons:
- players will actively avoid challenges (the point of punishment, after all, is to change behavior)
- the devs _cannot_ design challenging content that requires multiple deaths to understand and overcome.