The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

ITT people don't understand the difference between punishing and challenging. If a walking simulator with very slow quick time events bricked your computer every time you failed, that game wouldn't be challenging, but it would be punishing. The cost of failure would encourage you to avoid failure at all cost.

Super Meat Boy, or from my time back in the day 'N - The way of the Ninja' is incredibly challenging, but you aren't really penalized for death. Instead you require mastery to prevail. The way progression works in ARPGs tends towards power spikes, with the game catching up to you as you progress, until you spike in power with a new, improved gear drop. If that power spike doesn't happen for whatever reason you hit a wall.

Most games are designed such that, once you overcome one challenge, you should reasonably expect to be able to face the next one. In POE2, you not only are not expected to face the next one, if you have the audacity to try, you're slapped back so hard, you need to spend several days recovering. Mastery is not gained when you overlevel and overpower your character to godmode your way through the entire game. Mastery is earned when you don't need to do that. That's why it's common for people to deliberately cap their level in Elden Ring.

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Orion_3T#9801 написал:

This is such an egregious straw man I am starting to think you are doing it deliberately.

I was referring to the way it was implied players should be punished in order to modify their behaviour, presumably to conform to that intended by someone else. The tone was what invited my Dickens reference, I think it was apt.

Most people these days understand that incentives for doing well generally work far better than punishing mistakes. And that while punishment has its place in society in general, and is sometimes necessary for deliberate violations or otherwise egregious behaviour that has a negative impact on others (none of which apply here) as it is generally an unpleasant experience it doesn't have much place in an activity that's supposed to be enjoyable.

And not once have I argued or implied that there shouldn't be a challenge, quite the opposite. Challenge is fun. Being overly punished for attempting to overcome a challenge is not. It just discourages trying again.

I'm given up at this point, exile. Your debate flow far better and he hold nothing. I wish I could learn some insight, something I missing about this penalty, but I gain nothing.

It's kind of pure black/white without other color with them.

Man, I really wonder when did game require punishing than just challenge. Do we play Uno and when we lose, we need to hit ourselves or pay a buck as punish *so that can be a fun out of it?

Edit -> add up*

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Battousai21#8595 написал:

Stop with bashing each other's opinion. It's clear that every single person have it's own definition of fun and what is challenging.

The problem is that we are on the same playing space and everyone will want to have it's own idea over the other. I don't care if your new or runs POE in their blood, but i think you guys would agree that there is only one universal truth for this game -- what makes MOST people happy will benefit GGG by having more player retention, more player retention will most likely equate to more profit for the game, and more profit means more budget to expand and make the games better and better.

If you have an idea, share it as your own opinion. Don't shove it someone else's mouth if they don't like it. Have a healthy discussion instead.

Name calling and just bashing just seems too immature. People like these are like fortnite players for ARPG.

You can't make other people understand if you are toxic, you'll just sound like an A-hole.

Don't be an A-hole.

These people needs to grow up.

I don’t personally believe the more people playing the better. McDonald’s isn’t suddenly high quality food just because they sell more burgers than a 3 star Michelin restaurant. Better for ggg’s bank, doesn’t mean better for the game….you guys watch way too much asmongold, guys not gospel.

Because of the XP penalty I abandoned the game. It should at least be configurable.

POE2 is stuck in the past and will NEVER have the same amount of players as the competing game.

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Battousai21#8595 написал:

The problem is that we are on the same playing space and everyone will want to have it's own idea over the other. I don't care if your new or runs POE in their blood, but i think you guys would agree that there is only one universal truth for this game -- what makes MOST people happy will benefit GGG by having more player retention, more player retention will most likely equate to more profit for the game, and more profit means more budget to expand and make the games better and better.

I disagree, I yearn for the more socialist days of games being good and people playing them a bonus rather than as a profit seeking enterprise constantly regressing to the mean

xp lost is meaningless when builds can trivialize the entire game and just die because of random one shots at random occurrences anyway.

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

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Battousai21#8595 написал:

Stop with bashing each other's opinion. It's clear that every single person have it's own definition of fun and what is challenging.

The problem is that we are on the same playing space and everyone will want to have it's own idea over the other. I don't care if your new or runs POE in their blood, but i think you guys would agree that there is only one universal truth for this game -- what makes MOST people happy will benefit GGG by having more player retention, more player retention will most likely equate to more profit for the game, and more profit means more budget to expand and make the games better and better.

If you have an idea, share it as your own opinion. Don't shove it someone else's mouth if they don't like it. Have a healthy discussion instead.

Name calling and just bashing just seems too immature. People like these are like fortnite players for ARPG.

You can't make other people understand if you are toxic, you'll just sound like an A-hole.

Don't be an A-hole.

These people needs to grow up.

I don’t personally believe the more people playing the better. McDonald’s isn’t suddenly high quality food just because they sell more burgers than a 3 star Michelin restaurant. Better for ggg’s bank, doesn’t mean better for the game….you guys watch way too much asmongold, guys not gospel.

Thanks for the reply. My comment is based on my work with different clients and that's how they grow their company and expand the offerings they have to their customers or clients. Goal is always to be win-win for both the company and their clients. And to me (I respect if you can't see it), a company would always WANT TO EXPAND THEIR REACH, and for free-to-play games like POE, the only way to do that is make things better and better, else, your game will die. You can't just stop at one point of development and maintain it, else people will get bored. This is why they introduced leagues/seasons. Developing new leagues and further improving and adding contents. We will not have POE 2 right now if POE 1 didn't expand it's player base and the game itself becoming better.

I prefer to keep the penalty because it actually means something to hit 100

- Dedication to the grind
- Consistent build that doesn't die often

Trade league can already bypass everything challenging about this game by either buying carries or the gear to make everything obsolete.

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xpose#1651 написал:

I prefer to keep the penalty because it actually means something to hit 100

- Dedication to the grind
- Consistent build that doesn't die often

Trade league can already bypass everything challenging about this game by either buying carries or the gear to make everything obsolete.

Ok then remove all death penalties from SC Trade but keep them in Hardcore leagues. Problem solved. Nobody cares about lvl100 in Softcore anyway and people will resort to buying carries, just like how they buy carries for ascendancy trials right now because its easier to trade someone 100 exalts than it is to do 4 floors of Sanctum lmao

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Strangehill#1736 написал:

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Battousai21#8595 написал:

The problem is that we are on the same playing space and everyone will want to have it's own idea over the other. I don't care if your new or runs POE in their blood, but i think you guys would agree that there is only one universal truth for this game -- what makes MOST people happy will benefit GGG by having more player retention, more player retention will most likely equate to more profit for the game, and more profit means more budget to expand and make the games better and better.

I disagree, I yearn for the more socialist days of games being good and people playing them a bonus rather than as a profit seeking enterprise constantly regressing to the mean

I would agree with you, but unfortunately for us, this is a live-service game, which is powered by people playing it.