Why are only melee punished by weapon specific skill gems?

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Faerindel написал:

Why the heck are you thinking on "melee weps" as a whole? A sword is a sword, an axe is an axe and a mace is a mace. They are different weapons and can do different things.

You obviously cant read, or are mentally challenged.

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Xaxyx написал:

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LostForm написал:

But yes, I do believe the developers made some of their choices for which skills work for which weapons because of real world implications like an axe would cut into the ground, not slam it like a blunt object would.

Yes, clearly in the real world, jumping up into the air and slamming a pole with a big rock stuck on the end would create a shock wave that would stretch forward several feet and grievously wound any people I don't like who happen to be standing in front of me, but jumping into the air and slamming a pole with a big blade stuck on the end would just be a silly waste of my time.

Yes the mechanics of the game are based on exaggeration, but Jumping (lets call it leap) in the air and slamming into the ground (lets call it slam) will probably work the same way regardless of the metal attached to the end of the pole or not .

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pengant написал:

You obviously cant read, or are mentally challenged.

Quit with the mentally challenged crap. You've made a good point. Stick to that point. Mock his argument if you want to -- I'll even help -- but never the person. That's an ad hominem attack, which, aside from being explicitly forbidden on these forums, is a poor substitute for real argumentation.

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pengant написал:

@lostform

Please do explain how it doesn't only effect melee. I've explained my side of it, which i'll repeat to clarify. Bow users and spell users = No skill gem restrictions on weapon type. Melee weapon users = lots of restrictions on skill gems based on weapon type. I honestly can't see how you could think otherwise?

Good luck cleaving things with a bow. Or shooting explosive arrows with your wand. Cuz those weapons work with every attack, and are not saddled with weapon specific skills.

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Faerindel написал:

Why the heck are you thinking on "melee weps" as a whole? A sword is a sword, an axe is an axe and a mace is a mace. They are different weapons and can do different things.

Those items all do the same thing: they wound opponents. Indeed, they're all used the same way: they're swung, in melee range, using melee skills, to deal melee damage. Why, therefore, is it necessary to restrict which skills can be used by which weapons, simply based on whether or not the end is pointy or blunt?

Yes, it's cute and all that ground slam involves slamming slabs of stone into the ground. Fine. Sure. Flavorful. But this shouldn't be at the sacrifice of versatility, especially melee versatility, particularly when that same principle is blithely ignored for other weapon classes.

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Xaxyx написал:

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LostForm написал:

But yes, I do believe the developers made some of their choices for which skills work for which weapons because of real world implications like an axe would cut into the ground, not slam it like a blunt object would.

Yes, clearly in the real world, jumping up into the air and slamming a pole with a big rock stuck on the end would create a shock wave that would stretch forward several feet and grievously wound any people I don't like who happen to be standing in front of me, but jumping into the air and slamming a pole with a big blade stuck on the end would just be a silly waste of my time.

It’s common to see different skills for different weapon types in RPGs. For example GW1 had melee built around this concept.

Hi,

OP, to give you that, I can see what you are trying to say and you do indeed have a point there although I do not agree.

As already pointed out, Bow and Wand users are much more limited in the sheer number of attack-skills they can or cannot use. I mean, I cannot use Cleave with my wand, can I? And even if I dod not want to, I have only about 5 possible skills + autoattack anyways for shooting my wand. That is clearly much less than any melee weapontype has access to...

Regarding wands and spells, well, that argument is weak, as you can clearly use every spell (or at least the vast majority) with every other weapon too, although that does not make too much sense due to the spellbonus you only find on wands, sceptres and staffs (which, in themselves, also have a variety of skill limitations, but nvm).

But there is also another point which has not been brought up yet. While melee chars are clearly restricted by weapon-specific skills, it is a simple fact, that melee weapons themselves have a much broader variety and do drop much more often than other weapons. I mean, if you are a wand user, a good sword or mace will not be an upgrade, no matter the stats. Only a wands are viable, period. Same goes for bows. If you are a sword user you have at least two weapon types (swords or rapiers) AND (if you did not skill purely for DW) also 2handed options PLUS most of your skills will also work with at least one other weapon type. This is true for all melee skills. Therefor your chance of finding an apropriate weapon for your skill setup is much easier than for a wand user, who in turn has not to hazzle with the correct type of wand.

Now regarding your later statement:

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pengant написал:

Glad a few people with brains decided to join in with the discussion.

Why cant i smash the ground with an axe if i want to? Anyone who says 'because an axe wouldn't do that in real life like a mace' or implies anything like that, then i'm sorry but you're just mentally challenged. It's a game, where things are supposed to be fun and diverse and not restricted to thought processes like 'ground slam cant work with an axe because the real life surface area of an axe wouldn't impact the ground with enough to force to create a slam effect'.

I am sorry to say, but here you seem to show that you are mentally challenged yourself... I mean, IF what you said was taken seriously, I could as well ask, why my toon cannot fly, why my axes cannot shoot rockets from its handle and my bows throw small little daggers at the mobs. Why does my toon have to kill a monster? Why can´t mobs beg for their lives and drop their loot and run away just from the pure sight of my toon? Why are there no spaceships, cars, lazergunz, lightsabres and levitating dragons that fart butterflies to attack me? Why this, why not that? After all "It´s a game, where things are supposed to be fun and diverse and not restricted to thought processes" as you so eloquently pointed out. This is just no argument, but pure bullshit to defend an untenable hypothesis against the odds.

And one more thing, but this is just a small pointer on social behaviour which you do not need to regard if you do not want to... To only accept the view from people that share your position and to call others "mentally challenged" is never a good way to lead a discussion. It is frustrating for the participants and leads to the conclusion, that you are not interested in the process of discussing but do only want to babble about your PoV and like to read what you wrote. But again, if you do not need pointers on behaviour, ignore this.

regards

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LostForm написал:

Good luck cleaving things with a bow. Or shooting explosive arrows with your wand. Cuz those weapons work with every attack, and are not saddled with weapon specific skills.

Good luck beating up that strawman. It's very clear that the argument being put forth is that bow users and wand users have full range of the use of gems for those weapon classes, whereas melee users do not. If your argument had any real merit, you'd be defending it, not pretending to misunderstand ours.

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wrathmar написал:

It’s common to see different skills for different weapon types in RPGs. For example GW1 had melee built around this concept.

Yes, that is quite common. What's not so common is seeing restrictions around this principle applied to one class of weapons (melee) but not to others (ranged, spell).

Heres are the list of weapon classes in the game

Dagger
Claw
Sword
Axe
Mace
Staff
Wand
Bow
Unarmed

You have decided to group the weapons into these groups

Dagger
Claw
Sword
Axe
Mace
Staff
as (Melee)

Bow
as (Bow)

Wand
as (Wand)

And then you proceed to complain that the weapons in the 'Melee' group behave differently to each other and have restrictions on gems.

And you compare them to the other groups and say that all the weapons in the group 'Bow' (which happens to only be .. bows..), behave the same, and all the weapons in the group 'Wands' (which happens to only be wands..), also behave the same.

Do you see how you have twisted some logic just to make an argument?

If we were to follow on your example of grouping, maybe the argument is melee vs range for example, then I would at least group Bows and Wands into 'Range'. In which case, yes the sub classes within the group 'Range' does have restrictions on gems, just as the melee does.

Perhaps a more valid argument would be to say that certain weapon classes have more skill gems available for them to use than others. (Bows probably have the most, and dagger/claws the least. I'm guessing this, someone else can do the maths :p)