armor vs evasion vs energy shield

The big problem with ES builds is that you pretty much won't get any armor or evasion - maybe a little evasion if you run Grace, but that's it - yet you don't really get more ES than life builds get life. It's not at all unusual for a life build to have 5k+ life while also having pretty high armor or evasion. A CI build basically writes off armor and evasion but doesn't get so much more ES that it's worthwhile. Coupled with the fact that you give up healing potions, it's been really hard to justify going pure ES. The builds are stretched so incredibly thin but for no real gain since ES is not inherently better in any way.

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Acrominon написал:

Well an important thing about evasion is that it's not really rng but uses an entropy system, you should read how it works on the wiki: http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Evasion
Say all incoming attacks have a 25% chance to hit
If you were just hit by an attack, then you are GUARANTEED to dodge the next 3 attacks, likewise if you just dodged 3 attacks, then you are GUARANTEED to be hit next attack.
There's just a bit of rng on whether you would dodge the initial 0 to 3 hits.
What is important about this is that you don't have to worry about getting hit consecutively by chance and losing your hardcore league to RNG horseshit.
This makes evasion much safer and viable on hardcore so don't be scared by it and go IR on a ranger like I'm sure many players are.

Exactly what I did with my first character thinking that a random chance to evade would be to dangerous when a enemy streaks. Not knowing the armour formula back then I thought IR was a good idea.

But evasion is not fully random hence even a comparatively low evasion helps reduce damage a lot as long as your HP/ES pool is high enough to buffer the hard hits.

Stacking Evasion and HP/ES can work well, even for hardcore.

Using endurance charges on top might be nice but it always makes me wonder how people talk about them as if they were additional 15 % reduction that are a piece of cake to maintain.
They are not! Especially in Boss situations where you would have to cast 3 times (consider the cooldown) and recast every 10 seconds. That requires a lot of practice and is bound to fail from time to time when under stress.

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Jakabov написал:

A CI build basically writes off armor and evasion but doesn't get so much more ES that it's worthwhile. Coupled with the fact that you give up healing potions, it's been really hard to justify going pure ES. The builds are stretched so incredibly thin but for no real gain since ES is not inherently better in any way.

Well you would be immune to chaos damage. For a ranged Char that doesn't get hit that much physically anyway, surviving chaos damage burst in act III is a major issue if not the issue.
Not having to worry about chaos you can cap the other resistances with less effort.

You are right though when it comes to melee builds and bosses: No armor/ evasion and less hitpoints than a life build.

When you ask me I see a big divide between good builds for mobs and good builds for bosses on many levels. It's really hard to do both.

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Vipermagi написал:

Dodge works against all Attacks and Spells, negating all damage types, but does not reach high probability.

Dodge IS an evasion co-efficient. If you have 30% dodge and 50% evasion, your final evasion is 50x1.3=65%. 20% dodge and 40% evasion - 40x1.2=48%.

Spell dodging is fixed, 1 out of 5.

People post at length about how the Armour formula is weak against big hits, but no one seems to have noticed that in the Evasion formula Evasion is raised to a power of 0.8 (which is the same as saying Accuracy is raised to a power of 1.25). It is easy to write off Armour because we know how big the damage is of the hard hitting mobs, but with Evasion we don't really know what the Accuracy is of various mobs.

When you look at your chance to evade it is giving your chance against an average accuracy for that level, but your chance against mobs with higher accuracy than average is exponentially less.

I wonder which mobs have high accuracy? I know it has been pretty routine with RPGs to have hard hitters be less accurate to sort of balance them - if that is done here then it would be a huge boon to Evasion users because those are the ones you most want to evade; but if the hard hitting bosses also have above average accuracy, then evasion users are in the same boat as Armour users (which I suspect to be the case since people say you need Dodge as well as high Evasion, and dodge is a different roll which is not affected by accuracy).

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Hydrogenium написал:

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SL4Y3R написал:

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Startkabels написал:

I invested a lot in defence.
I have just checked my armour and have 6K armour and only 55% DR in merciless, doesn't make sense with very high focus on defence....

Armour and general defense is based on the notion you are using end charges. If you're not. It will fail.

This. I actually happen to find armor scaling formula brilliant, at the very least realistic. You WILL tank an end game boss crit with endurance charges, determination, molten shell and granite. Determination is essentially passive, quality granite with mod and molten shell have relatively long duration, endurance charges is the only tricky one.

But think about it again, you are TANKING an end game melee boss crit (a lot of which are avoidable). Then there are things like physical damage immunity and taunt totem. For most other cases, INCLUDING entire screen worth of mobs rushing at you, armor is AWESOME (especially fast, low damage hitting mobs).

If only fast low damage hitting mobs were actually dangerous to require a special defense against them to begin with... But guess what? They aren't'! You can just stack hp and hp regen and tank hordes of white mobs all day long without breaking a sweat, you can even go afk and never die to pure waves of white mobs, and if you have any sort of reflect damage you will eventually kill them all too, while still being afk. The problem starts with dangerous elites and of course bosses, that's when you really need the additional defense armor is supposed to give you and that's when you get disappointed that armor doesn't help you at all in these situations.

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Jakabov написал:

The big problem with ES builds is that you pretty much won't get any armor or evasion - maybe a little evasion if you run Grace, but that's it - yet you don't really get more ES than life builds get life. It's not at all unusual for a life build to have 5k+ life while also having pretty high armor or evasion. A CI build basically writes off armor and evasion but doesn't get so much more ES that it's worthwhile. Coupled with the fact that you give up healing potions, it's been really hard to justify going pure ES. The builds are stretched so incredibly thin but for no real gain since ES is not inherently better in any way.

well with ES in end game most people take CI, the inherit ability with that is 100% chaos resistance... which in pvp is HUGE. also every piece of gear in end game basicly gives you 400-500 more ES so its much easier to get 5k+ es than it is to get 5k HP... if you want 5k hp, dont expect to get many other nodes to increase ur dmg

armor isnt even that good. at lvl 73 with 5k armor(buff included) i have like ~30% reduction, even to like 30 fire resistance lol.....and if you tried to tank a dog in the docks without max fire resist you would know how well that works

Ive been around a long time, on and off playing for the last year. When it comes to the top of the ladder, its the same 2 things. Massive DPS to cover the damage you would take by killing first(usually with range), or masive Defensive nodes, almost 100% in defense, to cover the fact you cant dps and need to be in the fight longer. Unfortunetaly stacking 1 or the other is almost always a must. The dps you need VS the damage you may take are spread out vastly. You have templars running mix resist for the spells and never getting touched by melee. you have tank builds absorbing tons of DPS with massive amounts of life to buffer the fact: they plain out suck in DPS compared to range, on almost all spectrums. If you a range character, why are you getting hit anyways? if your a melee, why wouldnt you invest in defenses? I think the top players have shown many times, you need to just learn how to play, and everything is viable, just not as fast as pure DPS range builds when it comes to map clears. Life is the best stat in the game hands down, for the last year, and probly forever.

Curious for me is the fact, that a Ranger with Iron Reflexes have more Armour than a classic Murauder without that skill but in thick Armour. It's a must to take Iron Reflexes and this limits the game expecialy in Hardcore. I tried both Determination with Armour and Evasion (Iron Reflexes) with Grace and the Difference is huge in my opinion.

Thats definetaly the case, tho i must admit, you get less elemental resistances than a maurader/templar. You can stack just as much, if not more Life nodes. Also you dont get endurance charge nodes, unless you are really trying to travel a vast distance. There is a node for 4% increased evasion per frenzy charge. this makes fenzy chrages pretty OP from the damage, attackspeed, evasion boost with 5-6 charges. Might not seem like much, but when your armor is high, evasion mods on flasks really top it all of as a 3 part armor boost.