The problem with Exalted Orbs

No vamphyr, no one is saying you go 25% of price just to get a sale. If you have issues selling common currencies like fusing, chaos, regret etc, the fault is your end. It really is not hard at all, except for those who posts too high offers and it's like that. You wanna do it fast, you lose a few % value to those who flip currency and are not in a hurry.

Problem is, you spew random loose talk, such as the 25% example. Learn how to trade and the game will be much easier for you instead of QQ'ing on forums that it takes ages to sell your chaos/fuse/chrom for exalts, trying to claim that it is "an exercise in patience and usually disappointment". You should try buying vaal orbs for 6linking corrupted items, that can be a real lesson in patience sometimes.

I didn't say all your post was wrong, i just said it was full of wrong it in, which is undeniably true when you know better which you clearly don't trying to claim it to be so.

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Saltychipmunk написал:

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goetzjam написал:

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Saltychipmunk написал:

the same can be said about alts and regals though.


eternal orbs made the whole crafting chain cheaper

from the needing less well rolled bases / scourings
to needing less trans orbs to start/restart
to needing less alts / augs to get the 2 important mods
to needing less regals to roll up to rare

I am assuming when you say "use exalted orbs in economical ways) you using things like master mods to fill mod slots to cut into the rng.. rather than simply spamming the exalted orbs.

if that holds true , would simply changing the craft prices to exclude exalted orbs kill the market for them?

LOL eternals mad the whole crafting chain cheaper?


Are you fucking kidding me?


Totally cheaper to pay 3-5ex for an orb that just saves the work you've done so far then to reroll multiple items, especially with the cost of exalts right now. Your statement is so ass backwards idk. Crafting weapons now is literally the SAME EXACT PROCESS.

what the fuck are you smoking? of course eternal orbs made the process cheaper , sure the orb it self was expensive , but it basically gave what was essentially a save point for high end crafters and gave more value the more correct mods already on an item. was it as worth it for blue items , no , but holy craft you better fucking believe eternal orbs were money savers on 5 mod rares


you could save tons of currency using them , it is why they were removed . chris basically came out and said that is why they were removed.

i am guessing you ignored the tense there , i said made not make as in past tense as in before these leagues as in before all this stupid shit with the master trump scour and multi mod crap. as in 1.3

holy shit on a Florida porch

Have you seen literally any of the post about the new meta mods and the fact you can now scour away all prefixes\suffixes for much much less then the cost of an eternal?

The ignorance of some people here is actually so huge.

The process wasn't cheaper dude, the process took 100's of orbs to do so, with the reduced cost of these master mods, the process is actually cheaper NOW.

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you could save tons of currency using them , it is why they were removed . chris basically came out and said that is why they were removed.

You could technically, you could also spend a small fortune and never get what you wanted, eternals didn't affect the RNG of what the exalts actually did, only removed the "downside" of using the orb, while increasing the cost to do so.

From what I understand Chris said they added these new bases and thought it was a good time to remove it (ideally so no new top tier mods\bases) Problem with that is people on standard have tons of eternals, so its only in temp leagues where this is now "not achievable" but the aftermath of removing eternals, is the decrease in cost for master's mods, which has cause this shitstorm we have now.

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i am guessing you ignored the tense there , i said made not make as in past tense as in before these leagues as in before all this stupid shit with the master trump scour and multi mod crap. as in 1.3

And? What the fuck does that have to do with anything, we can discuss the past all we want, but ultimately masters have completely fucked crafting into this pigeon holed shit and caused TONS of issues, dupes, instance crashing, ect.

If I had money to wager, the removal of eternals has more to do with GGG fucking up, then it has to do with the "effect" on crafting.

Eternals were essential to prevent this situation we have with masters now, not only did the previous higher cost in eternals not increase the cost of exalts, it increased the cost of eternals, which made them a sought after orb. You know something people could horde INSTEAD of exalts. Its "cheapened" both in cost and in the experience of crafting the whole system, this is probably the worst thing GGG has ever done, all cascading from a shitstorm that is removing 1 currency orb.


The crafting situation now is an absolute joke. Instead of options, we now rely on masters and abuse them to the fullest, funny because masters were suppose to enable MORE options, not take away options.

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goetzjam написал:

The ignorance of some people here is actually so huge.

Nice trololol post, but you seem to forget backing by reality.

First of all, the new crafting modes have been known for a couple of days and you are acting like it is common knowledge and has been that way for ages, whereas what he is saying has held true to a huge degree ever since the introduction of eternal orbs.

What is more is - the new master crafting cannot do perfect items. At the end of everything, you still have to yolo exalt if you want a shot at a perfect item, throwing away that good 100exalt value craft in nearly all cases due no eternal(in terms of creating perfect items). With eternal removed, even with the new crafting mode, it's gonna cost you FAR more than before to craft a perfect item and probably we won't see many. I didn't do the math but i wouldn't be suprised if the theoretical perfect craft average cost was 20-100 times higher than before eternal removal. It is far easier to get a pretty damn good one now, but in terms of making that all t1 affix item.. no eternal no hope.

So, yea.. why tell others they are ignorant if didn't even think it through yourself?

thank you kindly Crackmonster

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Crackmonster написал:

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goetzjam написал:

The ignorance of some people here is actually so huge.

Nice trololol post, but you seem to forget backing by reality.

First of all, the new crafting modes have been known for a couple of days and you are acting like it is common knowledge and has been that way for ages, whereas what he is saying has held true to a huge degree ever since the introduction of eternal orbs.

What is more is - the new master crafting cannot do perfect items. At the end of everything, you still have to yolo exalt if you want a shot at a perfect item, throwing away that good 200exalt value craft in nearly all cases due no eternal. With eternal removed, even with the new crafting mode, it's gonna cost you FAR more than before to craft a perfect item and probably we won't see many. I didn't do the math but i wouldn't be suprised if the theoretical perfect craft average cost was 20-100 times higher than before eternal removal. It is far easier to get a pretty damn good one now, but in terms of making that all t1 affix item.. no eternal no hope.

So, yea.. why tell others they are ignorant if didn't even think it through yourself?

Your response is just priceless.


What he says only has slight relative bearing to what we have today. It honestly doesn't matter what was that 'possible' before when you look at what is now possible.


New master crafting is a cheaper version of eternals, specifically the scouring part to remove prefix\suffix. Its multiple times cheaper then eternals and an net very close results FOR A FRACTION OF THE PRICE.

You are just making number shit up and not looking at the facts in front of you, either do the math or don't present it as an argument. Eternal+exalting items to get PERFECT rolls WERE EXPENSIVE AS HELL, only possible by few people that didn't actually play the game, at least not traditionally. Either you flipped currency, did league specific thinks, like atziri challenges (first kills), did uber and sold gloves\axe or you got really lucky and used a combination. Special mention to other issues that "acted" like currency or inflated it, like duping, instance crashing (for rollbacks) or similar methods that cheapened the crafting system as a whole, far more then eternals can or every would have done.

6t1 shouldn't be impossible, it was the ultimate crafting goal if a player wanted to invest the currency to do for, considering the emphasis on economy, one would hope people would understand that crafting and rares should be the ultimate endgame for players that wanted something perfect, not hoping for the 1/11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111^10 chance of actually getting it to drop or the greater, yet still impossible chance 1/111111111111 of taking a top item and "yolo" exalting the last thing you want.

The game has changed significantly since closed beta, a lot of people are mistaken the mentality and differences between then any now, PoE is an EVOLVING game, not one that needs to go back to a time, which is no longer favorable, in terms of ultimate crafting.

The removal of eternals, prevent any player from "upsetting" the 6T1 unqiues currently in the market, no one and I mean no one is going to ever be able to change that, this alone is a reason not to change eternals, but this is kinda a standard only problem, one we can move on from now for a bit. In the temp leagues 6t1 was only possible under one of the incredibly hard wealth gaining tactics mentioned above, after all that the amount of mirrors in the market also limits the amount of people that could ever use that same weapon, assuming of course that is the "main" thing mirrored\crafted.

In SC leagues this is a much "larger" issue then HC leagues, because you don't lose anything when you die, but in HC a player would take a risk, even using a mirrored weapon and after all the time spent crafting can lose it all, SC has no risk of losing, only risk of the initial cost.

Like I said before the removal of the eternal is a cascade effect, that now removes any chance of competition in standard, increased the cost of exalts to insane levels in warbands, made master mods significantly cheaper then they should have been and overall is not good for SC. For HC its had less of an impact because FAR less people play in those leagues and have "abused" the mechanics listed above.

From my point of view you can't simply increase the number of exalts these masters cost (temp fix), you need to add a higher tier orb so that exalts themselves weren't the highest orb used for crafting EVERYTHING.


Trust me when I say I thought this out very well, 6T1 shouldn't be impossible, if the game is balanced around temp leagues, very few of these items were actually made, so little economic impact, aside from keeping the relative cost of exalts down, cost of these VERY STRONG masters mods up, which kept in check the "cheese" tactics now used.

I'm baffled of the situation and the fact that anyone thinks 6T1 was bad, furthermore after playing in HC, I can say GGG clearly made this eternal change completely neglecting any benefit it provided to HC players, so they made this change purely for SC temp leagues and well, we see how that backfired.

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goetzjam написал:

New master crafting is a cheaper version of eternals, specifically the scouring part to remove prefix\suffix. Its multiple times cheaper then eternals and an net very close results FOR A FRACTION OF THE PRICE.

How is it cheaper when you have to remove even good 4th rolls when your 5th roll is a troll-roll? (same goes for 5th roll and the 6th roll without eternals is ALLWAYS yolo and unremoveable once exalted)

???

First of all what he said was that eternal orbs made the crafting chain cheaper. That's litereally what he said and you said was bullshit. Were already talking past tense, were talking about what eternal orbs did, but when eternal orbs were in it was not possible to craft this way so the way you are mixing these situations up just isn't factual.

So... don't try to switch this shit around, he was explaining that eternal orbs made crafting so much easier, and he was completely right.

Second, i've no intention of doing the full perfect math, but if you have a look at the old spawn chances (before new mods were added), you can say maybe 1/100 yolo exalts gives the affix you want, but with new mod tiers added? sheesh, i don't even know.

So before we get to exalt, we need 5 t1 affixes.

I'm not exactly sure what they do but i guess they can't chaos due to 3 affix roll = item ruined.. so i reckon lets say they somehow get an item they reduce till it has 3 perfect prefix(prefix are the rarest genenerally). These are insanely rare. Just getting 1 of them with alt spam can be one in many thousands.. Okay.. so you have this item with 3 perfect prefix... now you need to get 2 perfect suffix. I guess to do this they exalt up to twice until they get a bad roll then they add prefixed cannot be changed(suffix for 2ex) then scour, until they get what they want. This path costs to be generous lets say 3ex each time, and you need on average, again with generous spawn chances, to do it 33*50 = 1650 times.. its 1/100 chance but there are 3 rolls so 3/100 = 33, 2/100 = 50.. Anyway thts 1650 * 3 = 4950 ex. I doubt you can get 3 perfect prefix for less than many thousand ex in pure chaos spam (or buying from trade). Anyways lets again be generous and say 5000 exalts in total for a 5t1 prefix.. then multiply that by 100 to yolo exalt the last thing u want and tadaa you're sitting at 500.000 exalts. Then you'll find again my estimted number was extremely generous the one i gave you with 20-100 times value.

So i doesn't really matter what u thought, eternal (rolling 1 affix at a time) is by far the surest path to perfection. Maybe i made some mistake and maybe there is an easier way, but this relying on multiple chained rolls gets atronomically expensive compared to eternalling.

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That said.. i don't argue against whether you should be able to get 6t1 or whatever, and i do say getting a good rare now is easier. But perfection..

Now looking at this i've written, i see they have created an enormous desire of exalted orbs(need to add the master mod + get 2 mods so u can still mastermod/scour if bad rolls. So i really think they should create an influx of exalted orbs to compensate, or change the costs of the mods into something like divine, or both. Something.

I like this crafting system better than the old though. It encourages you to just get decent roll's and don't try for perfection, and getting decent rolls have gotten easier and there is more control over your items + opens up more rares to be useable than before. I really like that. This is the first time i have ever felt something seems like crafting, using your knowledge to remove certain mods, lock others and roll some etc. Really great.

By the way if you think exalts are expensive on warbands now - just wait until this goes mainstream. Hehehehehehe. Prices for items should decrease again sometime though(in terms of ex), when people figure out that they can't sell to old prices anymore.

I did a similar post on Reddit and got a ton of crap for it. My views may be wrong, but almost none of the comments were any use in terms of rebutting what I said, or providing new information to the discussion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3hqn8r/response_to_suggestions_to_change_elreon_to/

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Vincendra написал:

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goetzjam написал:

New master crafting is a cheaper version of eternals, specifically the scouring part to remove prefix\suffix. Its multiple times cheaper then eternals and an net very close results FOR A FRACTION OF THE PRICE.

How is it cheaper when you have to remove even good 4th rolls when your 5th roll is a troll-roll? (same goes for 5th roll and the 6th roll without eternals is ALLWAYS yolo and unremoveable once exalted)

???

It's not 100% the same in terms of what it does, and you'll probably not get a 6T1 item, but it is a cheaper version, as he wrote.

Eternal/Exalting is crazy expensive, and mainly because of the Eternal.
(Iirc, the owner of Loath bane, the most mirrored item ever, with a freakin 100 Ex fee, still didn't get into profitable territory)

Now look at Scouring Orb's price.

The other point stands though, in the end you can't compare two methods that have little chances to have the same output in terms of quality. It's quite safe to assume a part of the players using Eternals before they were removed already knew about interactions between metamods and orbs like scourings etc., yet they did use eternals. It's quite reasonable to assume they didn't want to use a more expensive way of crafting on purpose, but that way just had possibilities the other (Masters) has not or with very little chance or only with certain type of "easily craftable" items like +3 bows.