Pohx: POE is now like D3, leveling is too easy, map system the same, most uniques sucks....

I didn't watch what he is saying in video. But game really need both casuals and so called "no lifers" to stay alive and keep players. I think that most of player base is casual gamers, playtime hour - some hours /day or week. If game is too hard and takes too much time to reach end game content. Casuals won't play it, cause they want to play game where u get somekind of satisfy for ur time spent on computer. If casual won't play the game it will be dead in some time cause big part of player base will be gone, only "no lifers" are able to play game.

Also game needs lot of no lifers, theorycrafting, streaming and making videos to keep casuals interested about game. To guide and hook new players to game. They will always figure out nice things to community and keep posting new ideas for content.

Im so called casual gamer. Yes I have played lot of this league but still few hours to zero hours /day. I think this is very good game and there is lot of content in this game. I have also played D3 from the first day to season 5. U can't really compare Poe to D3. In D3 there is like 100x times less content than Poe. It's good example why u don't want to make game too much casual. U will reach ur goal in few hours and thats it. Nothing to do, there is no content after that. Thats too easy even me. Who cares about greater rifts or paragon levels cause u can't do nothing with it.

I know streamers who can play game like 16 hours/day might get a little bit frustrated about content, but they need to look things a little bit wide eyes. Cause without big player base game will be death in sometime. GGG needs a big player base to keep game fresh and bring new content in.

Point by point:

PoE and D3 are the same now:
While they have become more similar. They are light years different, if this is Pohx's overarching idea we are going to disagree a lot.

Leveling is too easy:
Agreed except that D3 is still way easier. He says "unless you get power-leveled" but you can't ignore the fact that you can go to 70 in 30 minutes or so. The argument about uniques vs sets is frankly ridiculous.

Content:
Torment vs Maps are not the same thing. Torment is a number bump. These maps include new tilesets, and brand new bosses. It is actually new content. A rift is a completely randomized zone that the player has no control over besides the number.

Game getting easy:
Yup. This actually wraps into why why 98% of uniques are "trash" and the same with divination cards. many of those are well designed, but have no place in the current speed clear high dps meta.

Trade:
Oh how does that compare to D3's?

So yeah. It turns out we disagree a lot. I think the main thing is he dislikes maps and I like maps. Therefore endgame still being centered around maps disappoints folks like that.

Yup power creep is out of control. I hope there is a major change on that front soon. They had their chance with 2.0 and they dialed back.

but I like POE :(

Ask pohx what would be a good idea for endgame though and he won't have a straight answer.

In the end all GGG can do is enhance the main experience,to overhaul it as a whole would make a different game.

In comparison d3 has to provide any significant content 3 year now and resorts to % on scaling,cause that's only left for them to do.To even compare it to PoE where updates come every 3 months,its just an insult.

One is the problem left on PoE now that coc is getting fixed.Double dipping,which allows one hit kills.

Only this and this alone is the culprit of the metas.

Please never again compare d3 with poe.The only reference point is that its both arpgs.

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markww написал:

Streamers get bored with the game because they play it too much and have to play it in a certain way or get flamed

It's kinda different. Of course streamers get bored of computer games in general, the way a person gets bored of his job. But here it's not the case.

It's the context of his statement that is interesting, which also gives answers why a great majority of dedicated PoE streamers have almost or entirely abandoned the game.

When a game is up to a point that everything is so easy, or/and doesn't require certain skills and knowledge, but only time investment, such a scenario is a death sentence for streamers. What they are supposed to do and what's expected of them, and what they like to do, to keep the interest in their stream, is the ability to discover new builds and interesting interactions between skills, items, and mechanics. What they also enjoy is (relatively) hard games, to distinguish themselves from the cattle, to be on top with aforementioned skills and knowledge.

When the game is dumbed down and made ridiculously easy to a point everyone can do what they can, streamers lose interest. When character development and progression are gated only behind time investment, but not personal abilities, they lose interest. When items don't require thinking to get put into play, but are either useless trash or OP best-for-all, they lose interest.

That's what he actually meant, but sounded like a whine. As he's an utter dick as a person, but that's a different story.

Even a bot like Ziz fucked away, it's pretty dumb to keep the interest of your viewers only by targeting 100 (a botlike activity). But to have nothing else to show, which other players already don't have, or don't know, or can't do. Then exp nerf came and he was completely done.

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elwindakos написал:

One is the problem left on PoE now that coc is getting fixed.Double dipping,which allows one hit kills.

Only this and this alone is the culprit of the metas.

You sweet summer child :)

To balance a game around players having 8+ available hours a day to play, is kind of stupid - that is if you want to make enough money as a developer to pay for meals and housing. How some players can do this every day, and still earn money to pay the bills, is beyond me. But hey, that's another discussion.

This game needs both groups, and they need for both groups to have a sense of achievements AND something to strive for. And the more no-lifers have to strive for, the less sense of achievements the casuals get. And the more sense of achievements casuals gets, the easier the game gets for the no-lifers. It's a difficult balance.

And then there’s the payment issue. Not a lot of players will support this game if they know from the get-go that they’ll never achieve anything on an endgame scale. And as far as I know, the developers are in need of money - and new players.

The balancing here is difficult. But again, balancing a game around players playing 8-16 hours a day is kind of “over the top”. I can’t really think of any game in world that wouldn’t feel “easy” if I had that kind of play time available.

And Pohx has, as far as I know, played this game for MANY years. ALL relevant knowledge is there. He knows EVERYTHING there is to know. He has done everything there is to do. MANY times. There's not much GGG can do. There's only "so much" content they can push out every patch.

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Z_Fighters написал:

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Filousov написал:

I honestly think that the map on maps idea is awesome. The basic system can't be over-complicated. This is elegant solution and gives interesting incentives!

well it's not actually maps on maps..that actually makes it sound kind of interesting..

it's just..

+30 maps.

and

+ 1 or 2 extra mods on your maps.


Sorry for the gloom I am just being realistic.

Yes, but still it's some realization.
Basically the skill system as one big "graph" was also realization that passive allocation like in D2 is just better shown as "graph" like in PoE. This is what makes it most advanced skill system in ARPGs to a degree that we think that D2 like skill systems are out-dated (not so advanced).

Now with the Atlas of maps this is also happening in end-game. We have ways in maps with increasing difficulty giving us some main goal (to beat bosses in the center). We have additional mods per maps at will. We have increased tier of maps at will. This is solving a lot of problems with previous system already.

And who knows what it will mean to beat shaper at the end ... (The optional global increase of difficulty of maps for second round?)

English is not my native, so i apologise in advance =)

Hi all,

I don't agree with pohx at all.
I played both d3 and poe a lot (still i am a casual, i dont play anywhere close as the 10/15 hours a day players).

Its interesting at which point ppl can have different vision of the game.

For me d3 is a beat them all (i know its an HnS , but not for me). You move forward you kill the monsters. You have no question to ask about builds, skills or items, everything is clear and simple, while you lvl (well, ok , get power lvled in 6 minutes to 70 while waiting at the entrance of the rift map) you use the skills that appears one by one, one or the other doesnt change anything at this point.

At 70 you have a free 70 set to start with, you have no choices, the skills to use are indicated on it.
Then you get THE real main set, once again , the skills to use are written on it (hmm 2000% dmg on that skill, should i use it ?? ).

After that, you use the smooth responsive, well polished combat system to grind you way in grifts.

D3 is a well made beat them all, its fast, responsive, accurate, fun.

Poe is deep, complex, i lvled each char manually , i never asked a power lvl cause i have tons of fun lvling in poe, even after xx chars made.

I made my own builds this season once again, they are way weaker than metas, and i go back to metas at the end like always, but i played my dual wield glacial hammer, my perma stun melee splash heavy striker, etc.

Poe allow you to have fun with you own build, which will have a lot of weaknesses vs the metas, making the game way harder, especially in maps t10+

The tree, the items, all is more complex, nothing to compare, on the map system, once again for me its different than d3. In d3 you try to grind the grift lvls one by one to the max you can.
In poe you seek the lvl 100, at least for me, as a pure hc league player. ITs not the same at all, cause in poe it will be more build items based.

In d3 its more your gameplay ; the stuff wont change, you use the exact same gems and skills that the other one million player of your class, only the gems will be upgraded regulary, but its the end of the world if you upgrade you ancient 3845 dps weap for a 3889 one (yay an upgrade !!!!!111111111=).

Not the same games at all for me :o. I dont say d3 is bad , poe is good , or anything, i am a pure HC league player, i play nothing else at all, and i have nohting against sc player at all, i find the community really nice, i learn a lot each time with them.

But well, the vid was interesting, i just think some ppl , in reality, ask poe to be able to entertain them for a lifetime (10h+ / day, for 3 months ? the next league , so same, 10h+/day for 3 months? then...)
Which is simply impossible. I really hope poe will live long, i love this game. Gets better and better, for me, and i am hyped for the next exp (but which supporter pack will i get :p ?)

There is one thing i really wait for, it is the buff of older skills that REALLY needs one, exactly like shield charge, which became, a viable alternative to Eq. Those skills are really a lot : heavy strike, glacial hammer, dual strike, the list goes on... With a lil buff and melee splash buff, they could be really viable again, would be SO NICE. Do like shield charge please GGG; let us have even more viable options..


Peace =)

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Phrazz написал:

To balance a game around players having 8+ available hours a day to play, is kind of stupid - that is if you want to make enough money as a developer to pay for meals and housing. How some players can do this every day, and still earn money to pay the bills, is beyond me. But hey, that's another discussion.

This game needs both groups, and they need for both groups to have a sense of achievements AND something to strive for. And the more no-lifers have to strive for, the less sense of achievements the casuals get. And the more sense of achievements casuals gets, the easier the game gets for the no-lifers. It's a difficult balance.

And then there’s the payment issue. Not a lot of players will support this game if they know from the get-go that they’ll never achieve anything on an endgame scale. And as far as I know, the developers are in need of money - and new players.

The balancing here is difficult. But again, balancing a game around players playing 8-16 hours a day is kind of “over the top”. I can’t really think of any game in world that wouldn’t feel “easy” if I had that kind of play time available.

And Pohx has, as far as I know, played this game for MANY years. ALL relevant knowledge is there. He knows EVERYTHING there is to know. He has done everything there is to do. MANY times. There's not much GGG can do. There's only "so much" content they can push out every patch.

Quality post, sums up some of the things I wanted to say but was too lazy to bother. Cheers.