Unique item suggestion with a huge number of mods (feedback from players as wel as GGG appreciated!)

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SuperMotte написал:
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we are talking about thousands of total armor and evasion and you are going crazy over 300.


300 !BASE! armour. 17,64% MORE if you want so. So yes, that's a legit reason.
So what? This 3ex priced shield gives 2000 evasion rating. Nice. Still: so what? Do you want me to tell there is no difference between a shield having 2000 evasion or armour and boots having 5000 armour or evasion rating? It's not like that is a difference of 3000 or 150% more. Oh wait, it is.

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No sheilds don't reduce damage, daggers have the highest damage in the game and those are 1 handers.


Ever heard of dual wielding two daggers?


Ok, so here is the thing. I am not going to argue with a player that highest level character is 85 and second highest is level 40 something.

You have no idea what you are talking about, until you prove otherwise I am just going to assume you are trying to look more knowledeable then you are.

300 base armor, ok. There is a 2500 armor shield sitting for sell as well, I randomly picked lioneyes because its a fairly common shield that provides an interesting amount of stats, but technically for pure EV or Armor you want a rare.

You have no idea what the nodes on the tree do, if a shield has 2500 or 2000 armor or evasion AND you get increased defenses from shield those can double, triple or if you really want quadruple the base armor that those shield provide AND THEN increased based off of evasion or armor nodes. Its quite easily possible to get 8000 armor or more from a shield slot and you are complaining that if a user wants with this item they can sacrifice ALL of their flask slots for 5000 base evasion or armor? Anyway no one in HC could ever afford to run without at least 1 bleed removal one, hell I am not convinced this item would even be HC viable.

Do you know how many skills can use dual wield daggers to increase the damage more then just the bonuses from dual weilding? Not very many, not to mention with most dagger builds you rather have one harder hitting, higher crit chance dagger then 2 mediocre ones that alternate with attacks.

I can appreciate someone giving feedback in this thread, but until you learn more about the game I suggest you let more knowledgeable players discuss and item you seem to not understand.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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hell I am not convinced this item would even be HC viable.


Me neither.

On first sight, this item looks OP because it can give truly crazy stats no other item features. But the reality is that in most circumstances, firstly you won't go for that 1 crazy stat because you need other things (like at least 20% MS on boots e.g.) and secondly, the downside of not being able to use flasks anymore is immense, thinking about bleed in the first place.

That makes this item more of a gimmick and niche item. I think people are underestimating all what their flasks do for them. When they equip this item they will soon realize.

That having said, the numbers can still be changed if proven OP. Yesterday I made some calculations for a legacy Kaom build with 200% life and 10% liferegen. These boots with 5 life flasks would be indeed too OP for such a build. That's why I'm editing my first post in a minute to halve the life regen.

Other such changes will be applied if you can stipulate a precise build with gear, tree and maybe skills that proves these boots are too strong.
Последняя редакция: Soepkieken#7149. Время: 8 мая 2015 г., 02:49:52
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Soepkieken написал:
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hell I am not convinced this item would even be HC viable.


Me neither.

On first sight, this item looks OP because it can give truly crazy stats no other item features. But the reality is that in most circumstances, firstly you won't go for that 1 crazy stat because you need other things (like at least 20% MS on boots e.g.) and secondly, the downside of not being able to use flasks anymore is immense, thinking about bleed in the first place.

That makes this item more of a gimmick and niche item. I think people are underestimating all what their flasks do for them. When they equip this item they will soon realize.

That having said, the numbers can still be changed if proven OP. Yesterday I made some calculations for a legacy Kaom build with 200% life and 10% liferegen. These boots with 5 life flasks would be indeed too OP for such a build. That's why I'm editing my first post in a minute to halve the life regen.

Other such changes will be applied if you can stipulate a precise build with gear, tree and maybe skills that proves these boots are too strong.


I don't think you should be balancing a new unqiue with legacy items in play. Legacy items will always be a nightmare for the balance of the game, but they shouldn't have any effect on new items.

By legacy i actually mean items with rolls that are no longer possible in new leagues, for example kaom heart, facebreakers, ect.

Items that have been referred in the past as legacy like volls ammy or shav's ring are not that anymore, but rather zana specific, new items DO need to be balanced around these.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Ok, so here is the thing. I am not going to argue with a player that highest level character is 85 and second highest is level 40 something.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry. First my second highest char is level 51. Open your eyes before telling some bullshit. Secondly it has nothing to do with my suggestions. Feeling superior?
You are even running two level 1 chars and one level 7 char. ZOMFG!!!222

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You have no idea what the nodes on the tree do, if a shield has 2500 or 2000 armor or evasion AND you get increased defenses from shield those can double, triple or if you really want quadruple the base armor that those shield provide AND THEN increased based off of evasion or armor nodes. Its quite easily possible to get 8000 armor or more from a shield slot and you are complaining that if a user wants with this item they can sacrifice ALL of their flask slots for 5000 base evasion or armor? Anyway no one in HC could ever afford to run without at least 1 bleed removal one, hell I am not convinced this item would even be HC viable.


Again: LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OVERALL AND BASE. You can quadruple the base armour of a shield? I'm going to quote myself because you seem unable to properly read.

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And nodes are increases, that also counts for specialized in shields.

I hope you know the difference between more and increased since you are such a superior gamer with a lvl 93 witch.

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I can appreciate someone giving feedback in this thread, but until you learn more about the game I suggest you let more knowledgeable players discuss and item you seem to not understand.

OH, I want to appologize superior gamer who doesn't understand that the increases of shield passive nodes are just increases of shield defense added to the other increases and who doesn't get that there are quite many people dual wielding.

EDIT: Oh and did I mentioned that those shield passives are not for free? You have to spend skillpoints on it, for the 5000 BASE (hope you finally understand the impact of BASE and the difference to overall) armour or evasion only costs you 5 flasks (besides the unique itself ofcourse).
Последняя редакция: SuperMotte#2631. Время: 8 мая 2015 г., 05:49:09
Please guys, keep this post free of off-topic discussion.

I prefer well-argumented feedback, as concrete as possible, so I can refine this item.

Thank you!
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Soepkieken написал:
Please guys, keep this post free of off-topic discussion.

I prefer well-argumented feedback, as concrete as possible, so I can refine this item.

Thank you!


I still saying the jade and granite flasks are to strong when stackable.

277% increased Armour with 37 skillpoints (most of them would be picked either way)
So we get from that single item 5000 * (1 + 2,77) = 18850, more is easily possible with more nodes and rings or amulets giving you also same armour increases.

Or use Determination level 20 which gives you 51% more armour. Results with that aura: 28.463,5 armour for a single item. If this still isn't overpowered enough for you than have fun with that thing.


Oh @goetzjam: yeah let's equip a shield to a bow-ranger. ;)
Последняя редакция: SuperMotte#2631. Время: 8 мая 2015 г., 07:39:29
BUT, this is all you get from the boots, a good mitigation against physical damage. And you lose all your flasks. As the OP said, you underestimate the power of flasks.
And btw, you can still get better phys mitigation with a mix of some armor, Taste of Hate and/or Lightning Coil, and you still have your flasks ;).

And on a side note, some people are indeed wrong on how defensive stats stack (not you SuperMotte). Shield increased defense nodes stack additively with their parent defense stats increase node. for ex: 40% increased armor with shields stack additively with 16% increased armor for a total of 56% increase.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
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SuperMotte написал:
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Soepkieken написал:
Please guys, keep this post free of off-topic discussion.

I prefer well-argumented feedback, as concrete as possible, so I can refine this item.

Thank you!


I still saying the jade and granite flasks are to strong when stackable.

277% increased Armour with 37 skillpoints (most of them would be picked either way)
So we get from that single item 5000 * (1 + 2,77) = 18850, more is easily possible with more nodes and rings or amulets giving you also same armour increases.

Or use Determination level 20 which gives you 51% more armour. Results with that aura: 28.463,5 armour for a single item. If this still isn't overpowered enough for you than have fun with that thing.


Oh @goetzjam: yeah let's equip a shield to a bow-ranger. ;)



Your arguments are as weak as your highest level character.

You are completely missing the point of his item, armor or evasion in this case up to 5,000 base is at a huge sacrifice.

Lets do some math here, if you have a perfect or highly rolled granite flask (or evasion flask) with iron skin or reflexes you get 6k armor or evasion (depending on the flask) during its effect. So if you had every single flask slot filled with granite or evasion flask you would be able to keep spamming pots for a permanent 6K base armor increase, this is more then his item is suggesting allowing AND ITS ALREADY IN THE GAME.

He isn't directly stacking the flask, but rather giving a much smaller bonus for each type of flask equipped. Its not like he is allowing for you to run 30,000 from his unqiue and 5 granite or jade flask equipped, but instead allowing for you to run 1k armor or evasion PER flask up to 5 and they lose all potential bonuses from being rolled (not iron skin, no reflexes, no bleed removal, no curse removal, ect) I can go on and on on how important rolling flask are to surviving in the game and HIS ITEM REMOVES THAT ABILITY.

You bring up bow ranger, the point of the whole shield argument was the fact that you said "you can't get that much armor or evasion anywhere else" which isn't true a shield can EASILY get you much more then these boots and 5 flask, hell if you are sustaining flask charges 1 single good rolled flask will net you more.

The evasion\armor part of this unqiue design is not even close to the strongest points of it, if you don't realize that you don't understand how magic flask work.

@panini where did I mention the fact they stacked any other way then you are suggesting?
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Guess I misread. Can't find back what bothered me.

btw, Lioneye's remorse max armor is 406 * (1 + 2.5 + 0.2) = 1502 armor. Quality stack additively, not multiplicatively. This was changed in patch 1.2 iirc.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Последняя редакция: Panini_aux_olives#1967. Время: 8 мая 2015 г., 09:53:30
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Panini_aux_olives написал:
Guess I misread. Can't find back what bothered me.

btw, Lioneye's remorse max armor is 406 * (1 + 2.5 + 0.2) = 1502 armor. Quality stack additively, not multiplicatively. This was changed in patch 1.2 iirc.


Interesting the whole point of using that shield or any is you can get insane armor or evasion elsewhere aside from just these apparently "op boots"


I figured since I was responding to this I might as well go over the downsides in case people are forgetting.

Depending on the flask setup you use you are going to sacrifice some of the following:

life, technically these boots can provide the most life out of any boots, but at great cost
Movement speed, at stat typically highly desired or required for most builds.
Resistances, boots are typically a good place to get some resistances to make sure you are over-capped

Other downsides:

NO magic flask
No instant pots for "o shit moments"
No unqiue flask

I am sure there are many more, the whole point is you sacrifice a lot to use this item.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.

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