We need an in-game trading system.

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Artbox написал:

- Implement an NPC which players click to buy or sell.
- To sell, players put up their items, then set a price of currency.
- To buy, players can search for affixes of the item they need, then a list of matching items appear. Players then buy the item they want, the currency is deducted from stash.
- Item is sent immediately to players' inventory.
- There is no bidding or waiting time.

Pros:-
- Lessen frustrations from not being able to find upgrades from drops. Players can play the game instead of playing 3rd party websites.
- Lower prices of items that are currently overpriced, which gives new players the impression they will never get the good items.
- Improve efficiency of playing the game generally.

First, your "pro" of lowering prices is just flat out wrong. The easier trading becomes, the cheaper it is to trade for cheap items (that is, the currently underpriced items become even more so), and the expensive items become even more expensive (the overpriced items becomes even more so). This is because implementing an easier trade system tends to greatly increase the number of average joes in the economy, but does NOT greatly increase the number of trade tycoons in an economy (since they were already there). As a result, the most sought-after items do not increase in supply, while demand of the best items greatly increases; at the same time, supply of common items increases dramatically, increasing competition. More efficient trading would increase the size of the market and adjust prices accordingly, not make prices any more "real" than they are now.

Second, what you are talking about is increase the overall efficiency of trading. This is a different concept to "efficiency of playing the game," because playing the game includes farming. It may be that increasing the efficiency of trading on a broad scale makes the game less fun, because players are motivated to spend less time on the less productive activity of farming, and more time on a more efficient method of trading. It would, no doubt, increase the efficiency of gear progression generally, but attaining that gear progression in a way which subverts the farming component does not necessarily improve the game overall.

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Artbox написал:

Who may not like this trading system:-
- Players who painstakingly learn how to use 3rd party websites and do not like the idea of other players spending lesser time trading.
- Players who are overpricing their items and likes to monopolize the economy and flip items for profits.

Who may like this:-
- Everyone else.

I'm in neither group and I dislike the idea.

I do support players who enjoy flipping items for profits, even though I am not one myself; I believe it would be much more difficult to get your hands on items, and time normal players could spend farming would be lost, if it were not for flippers trying to make a profit on an item. I do not like those who try to create artificial monopolies, mostly because it's silly to try to create a monopoly on potatoes in a town where literally everyone farms potatoes -- in other words, I consider such players more stupid than evil. And although I acknowledge there is a fair profit margin for flipping items, I don't think overpricing or underpricing by more than a small amount is ever good form.

I like the idea of asynchronous trade -- that is, being able to trade with a player who is currently offline. I think it's ridiculous that the PoE market for a single item changes radically based on something as simple as one seller logging off, and I do not like how dependent shop sales are on the idea of always being -- or faking -- online to be available to buyers.

I do not like the idea of engine-enforced buyout pricing. I believe trading should be a skill test of some sort, in the form of a pricing game. I believe that without skill testers of some sort, trading would be too efficient for players of all tradeskill levels, and eclipse farming completely; I would prefer a system wherein forces of supply and demand determine how difficult an item is to trade for, and players with less trade skill are cut off from the most challenging acquisitions. This promotes a system wherein those who are skilled at trading tend to be good at it, and thus spend time trading to progress, where players who are not skilled at trading are not good at it, and thus spend time doing something they actually enjoy -- farming. The alternative is everyone is good at trading because it's so easy, so even those who do not enjoy it feel compelled to do so.

When you remove the ability to bid, buyers no longer are tested in terms of pricing items themselves, and instead have the skill-less task of finding the lowest price offered by sellers. I will not endorse any trade system where the process is as simple as the seller pricing an item, the buyer meeting that price, and trade completes; at a minimum, it needs to be seller chooses an asking price, the bidder makes an offer, the seller decides whether to accept the offer or not, and the trade completes. This process can, and should, be made asynchronous, but not made so efficient that it cuts steps which are vital to checking players' market skills.

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Whenever i read the very same things the very same people states, over and over regarding the same subject over and over

Well my friend, the first step in changing anything is recognizing the problem and then speaking about it. Over and over and over again, until the powers that be recognize that change is necessary and something is done about it. Complacency doesn’t inspire action.

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maldeneth написал:

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Whenever i read the very same things the very same people states, over and over regarding the same subject over and over

Well my friend, the first step in changing anything is recognizing the problem and then speaking about it. Over and over and over again, until the powers that be recognize that change is necessary and something is done about it. Complacency doesn’t inspire action.

I quit D3 the day the went BoA and no AH and came here. Loved it. Like trading and sniping bargains last 10 sec of auction. That was D3's end game. B/O were impossible towards the end because the bots got anything listed to low immediately. I actually see more merit to this system because bots cant play and you still get to trade.

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maldeneth написал:

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Whenever i read the very same things the very same people states, over and over regarding the same subject over and over

Well my friend, the first step in changing anything is recognizing the problem and then speaking about it. Over and over and over again, until the powers that be recognize that change is necessary and something is done about it. Complacency doesn’t inspire action.

Oh, i agree.

My comment is directed to the selected few that double-steps on the breaks every time this is brought up

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Aim_Deep написал:

B/O were impossible towards the end because the bots got anything listed to low immediately. I actually see more merit to this system because bots cant play and you still get to trade.

From I_NO's experiment that she posted about a few days ago, I got the impression that some people do use automated scripts/bots to find under-priced items on poe.trade. It does require a real person to whisper and conclude the trade, but it seems that there is automation going on that provides an "unfair advantage".

Imagine you looted an item that looks like it might be useful to someone, but you don't have the stash space to keep it around. Currently the game gives you 3 options:

1. Vendor it for table scraps, destroying an item that could have been valuable to someone
2. Stand around in town frantically spamming trade chat
3. Spend real money on more stash space (not always an option)

Now imagine if there was a way to remove that item from your inventory, advertise it for sale, and keep playing. Even if it's just a listing and you still need to be there to complete the trade. Now explain to me how this could possibly be bad for the game.

Well, I'm going to try and keep this topic alive and encourage players who feel the same way to contribute to the thread, simply because the title says it all and maybe perhaps with enough noise the devs will make it a priority to address.

All the economy majors and super hard core niche players (perhaps Chris included, as he seems to be holding on to some diablo 2 pipe dream) can argue until you're blue in the face about the specific impacts implementing an in game trading system will have to the games economy and player experience and my pet dog will be upset and my overall sex drive will be lowered and it will increase planet earth's chances of a direct meteorite apocalyptic disaster by 15-35%.

I'm willing to bet improving the trade system for POE would not negatively impact the game. Most importantly, I don't think it would impact GGG's bottom line. Perhaps, it seems, they may be worried about a trading system affecting stash tab sales, who knows. But for as long as the game has been out, trading has not been improved. Clearly this isn't the best GGG can do.

Me personally, if the next expansion was just a revamped trading system in which I can conveniently trade and acquire items I would have otherwise not been able to would be, I would be super happy and exited with this one change.

Here's an idea for GGG, why not come up with a few creative trading ideas and poll the community for best course of action.

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Mivo написал:

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Aim_Deep написал:

B/O were impossible towards the end because the bots got anything listed to low immediately. I actually see more merit to this system because bots cant play and you still get to trade.

From I_NO's experiment that she posted about a few days ago, I got the impression that some people do use automated scripts/bots to find under-priced items on poe.trade. It does require a real person to whisper and conclude the trade, but it seems that there is automation going on that provides an "unfair advantage".

In-game trade system is never happening, GGG in fact promotes scumbag behaviors.


They actually defend a guy that actively scams unknowledgable players and uses what I would consider a cheating program (writes his own script to parse Poe.Trade and the Forums, something no one else has access to unless they code it themselves). Everyone blackballs the guy and refuses to trade with him, GGG literally fucking changes his name and transfers all his MTX so that he is no longer on people's ignore lists.


An in-game trading system where information is readily accessible to everyone would complete eliminate this behavior; sure you would introduce other issues, however I'd rather have everything be underpriced then have to deal with the amount of trade scamming going on right now.

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Aim_Deep написал:

Only way offline option would work is no B/O computer algorithms can scan for.

don't ignore the intelligence of people seeking to exploit systems, my favourite is: "this very difficult and clever capture can definitely be only read by humans!111" which was countered by presenting it to humans on another site with a added note: "please insert the text above to see the next naked breast".

the only way to prevent players specifying buyouts is having no seller oriented market. only a buyer oriented trading system (i called it 'bots') can do that.

I play all the action rpgs like marvel heroes and D3 and have a huge guild in both i tried to bring ppl to POE but none stay more than a week couse in thys game you need to trade to make like 95% of the good builds.
And the trade in the the game take too much time. most ppl wana play the game and not the trade.
I love the game but the trade system need a revamp and bots are already a problem i never dropen one exalt but there is so many in the market.
So the bot problem is a GGG problem.
But thys old trade hurt more than help.