We need an in-game trading system.

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wrathmar написал:

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diablofdb написал:

an auction house 2.0 would ruin this game for everyone

In what specific ways would an in-game Auction House affect game play that the current 3rd party Auction House (poe.trade) does not?

Exactly.

To suggest that an 'AH' needs automated functions to do massive harm is quite myopic.

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Artbox написал:

We need an in-game trading system [...]

OR - we need the game's droprates to be balanced for normal time playing people (like 2/3h a day, max) and not 24/7 people, farmin everything in a few days.

my pov !

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wrathmar написал:

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diablofdb написал:

an auction house 2.0 would ruin this game for everyone

In what specific ways would an in-game Auction House affect game play that the current 3rd party Auction House (poe.trade) does not?

Well, to answer the question generally (yes, I read the question): anything which further dumbs down trading to make it even less skill intensive than it is now.

On the other hand, there are things automated trade can do to take a lot of emphasis off of behaviors which currently dumb down trading -- for example, copypasta trade chat spam to reel in buyers who aren't yet familiar with poe.trade, and having to give the appearance of always being online to reliably sell items in your shop leads to a heck of a lot of frustration when buyers discover that "online" players aren't online at all. That stuff is dumb as heck, and automated trade could un-dumb it.

But there is a portion of the "for automated trade" movement which is very openly for making trade as stupid easy as possible, and I disagree with that group, just as I disagree with the "against automated trade" folks who actively state that trade should be inconvenient. No, it shouldn't be inconvenient, but it shouldn't be easy either; it should be a well-designed player versus player economics minigame, where your success or failure depends not on how well you can handle a shitty UI or a third-party website, but on how well you match wits with other traders. That is: other players should make trading hard, not the interface itself. Flippers gonna flip, etc.

Oh, and to answer the question "why shouldn't trade be easy?": Well, you would like this game to be at least somewhat about farming, right? If trading is both free of PvP challenge and unimpaired by stupid UI, then the result is that everyone plays market simulator as much as they can possibly stomach, even if they don't really enjoy trading, and farm only after that, even if it's what they really play the game for. Trading needs to avoid instant gratification to roughly the same extent which farming avoids instant gratification; in a game like PoE where farming is a very long grind, this means the design burden to make trading difficult is severe indeed.

That's why I'm against buyout systems, because they take the pressure/opportunity of pricing an item away from potential buyers, and thus lower the amount of skill involved. However, assuming it is still a proper bidding/offer system instead of buyouts, I'm for asynchronous/automated trade.

I'd love to see the Asynchronous trade system ideas GGG keeps suggesting. To be able to send and accept trade requests even when both people don't play at the same time.

You'd prefer to trade instantaneously, and not wait, but if the other person only plays so many hours per week, or if you're on completely different schedules, this would be insanely good.

Might also mean you don't need to leave your map to trade!

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zbouby25 написал:

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Artbox написал:

We need an in-game trading system [...]

OR - we need the game's droprates to be balanced for normal time playing people (like 2/3h a day, max) and not 24/7 people, farmin everything in a few days.

my pov !

This!!!!! ^

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ScrotieMcB написал:

But there is a portion of the "for automated trade" movement which is very openly for making trade as stupid easy as possible, and I disagree with that group, just as I disagree with the "against automated trade" folks who actively state that trade should be inconvenient. No, it shouldn't be inconvenient, but it shouldn't be easy either; it should be a well-designed player versus player economics minigame, where your success or failure depends not on how well you can handle a shitty UI or a third-party website, but on how well you match wits with other traders. That is: other players should make trading hard, not the interface itself. Flippers gonna flip, etc.

I agree with this completely. That said, the fact that you need to alt-tab out of the game to find out the worth of an item you just looted, on a third-party website that you might not even know exists, is a pretty big UI issue, is it not?

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ScrotieMcB написал:

That's why I'm against buyout systems, because they take the pressure/opportunity of pricing an item away from potential buyers, and thus lower the amount of skill involved. However, assuming it is still a proper bidding/offer system instead of buyouts, I'm for asynchronous/automated trade.

Async/automated trade is the smaller issue. The main problem is that there's no in-game way of determining who's selling what. (And no, Trade chat doesn't count.) That's not an environment that fosters trading.

Just giving people a way to advertise what they have for sale, and search for items that other people have for sale, would be a gigantic step ahead. Once we have that, we could start talking about automation, which by the way I don't think is essential.

But I cannot think of a single reason why anyone would want to prevent people from discovering what's on the market.

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suszterpatt написал:

Async/automated trade is the smaller issue. The main problem is that there's no in-game way of determining who's selling what. (And no, Trade chat doesn't count.) That's not an environment that fosters trading.

Just giving people a way to advertise what they have for sale, and search for items that other people have for sale, would be a gigantic step ahead.

That's a good point. And a good, realistic place to start. +1

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GeorgAnatoly написал:

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suszterpatt написал:

Async/automated trade is the smaller issue. The main problem is that there's no in-game way of determining who's selling what. (And no, Trade chat doesn't count.) That's not an environment that fosters trading.

Just giving people a way to advertise what they have for sale, and search for items that other people have for sale, would be a gigantic step ahead.

That's a good point. And a good, realistic place to start. +1

Really, though, that's what poe.trade is. Yeah, I get that poe.trade is unofficial, but it's functional and the developers don't have to pay any costs towards its upkeep (other than ensuring poe.trade has access to the appropriate information). The latter is enough on its own to strongly disincentivize GGG from pouring resources into a new trade system, if the only fundamental difference is that their version is official and in-game. I believe rather strongly that GGG wouldn't consider it a worthwhile investment unless it adds a feature which couldn't be made available through poe.trade -- most likely asynchronous trading.

Now, do I think it would be appreciated by us, if all GGG did was make an official in-game version of poe.trade? I really don't know, but speaking solely for myself I think it would be a nice thing to have. Unfortunately, if I'm really being honest, since we already have poe.trade I'd rather have some proper balance adjustments or new content. Unless asynchronous was a thing, poe.trade is good enough for me.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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GeorgAnatoly написал:

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suszterpatt написал:

Async/automated trade is the smaller issue. The main problem is that there's no in-game way of determining who's selling what. (And no, Trade chat doesn't count.) That's not an environment that fosters trading.

Just giving people a way to advertise what they have for sale, and search for items that other people have for sale, would be a gigantic step ahead.

That's a good point. And a good, realistic place to start. +1

Really, though, that's what poe.trade is. Yeah, I get that poe.trade is unofficial, but it's functional and the developers don't have to pay any costs towards its upkeep (other than ensuring poe.trade has access to the appropriate information). The latter is enough on its own to strongly disincentivize GGG from pouring resources into a new trade system, if the only fundamental difference is that their version is official and in-game. I believe rather strongly that GGG wouldn't consider it a worthwhile investment unless it adds a feature which couldn't be made available through poe.trade -- most likely asynchronous trading.

Now, do I think it would be appreciated by us, if all GGG did was make an official in-game version of poe.trade? I really don't know, but speaking solely for myself I think it would be a nice thing to have. Unfortunately, if I'm really being honest, since we already have poe.trade I'd rather have some proper balance adjustments or new content. Unless asynchronous was a thing, poe.trade is good enough for me.

The number of unintended consequences with things GGG puts in the game are already high even when that something isn't that impactful.

Something like this could be a more realistic first step towards a longer term adjustment that might be more manageable (and malleable) in terms of collateral damage and other unforeseen events than just diving in all or nothing with a large change that would most likely be a failure anyway.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

]Really, though, that's what poe.trade is. Yeah, I get that poe.trade is unofficial, but it's functional and the developers don't have to pay any costs towards its upkeep (other than ensuring poe.trade has access to the appropriate information). The latter is enough on its own to strongly disincentivize GGG from pouring resources into a new trade system, if the only fundamental difference is that their version is official and in-game. I believe rather strongly that GGG wouldn't consider it a worthwhile investment unless it adds a feature which couldn't be made available through poe.trade -- most likely asynchronous trading.

I think you are overestimating the amount of work and support required for an in-game item index with the ability to whisper.

I also think you are underestimating the amount of lost/lapsed customers who leave because of no in-game trading. Not everyone knows about poe.trade. So from the perspective of many players the only "trading" available is the trade chat spam.

If GGG is unwilling/unable to pick up the slack, and finish coding core features into their game, then maybe they should hire the creators of poe.trade to add an in-game interface for them...