Melee Balance. With 600 upvotes, I think this deserves a little attention from GGG

Yup. I wrote it in there, and I'll wrote it here again - I think the main problem is amount of MORE DAMAGE supports. It is not longer about playing with mechanics - its about stacking damage. And when one type of builds can stack more of those, you need to balance the game around it, meaning everything else will be left in the cold. :V

Solution: Rework new MORE DAMAGE supports, so they are mechanics based and not simply DPS boosters, and balance the game accordingly.

To be honest, its all about numbers.
Buff enough any given skill damage and people will use it, even if means being really at melee range of the baddies (no Melee-From-Afar shenanigans) or if the clear speed and area (with melee splash mostly) is not as good as other skills.

Melee is fine.

It's spells and range attacks that are way OP.

Everyone wants power creep all to hell. But IMO you shouldnt be able to do 15 maps/uber w/o 300ex in gear. Should be rare and require great sacrifice not FOTM and 20ex as is today.

^ +1

issues with melee are numerous

the most important effect of these combined is: there is NOT A SINGLE F.. REASON to play melee if one is interested in broadly understood efficiency.

last 2w event. people were playing the less popular classes (slayer..) but even then they were playing them as RANGED! because there is not a single reason to play melee if one is competing (in broadest possible sense)

ranged AOE has to go down. cut offscreen, cut far-reach LEECH (adding 'attack leech' nodes was a terrible mistake)

ive made an ele BARRAGE character recently - was doing maps with 3k life no problem. it is BRAINDEAD easy to play bows (and maybe it is the reason GGG keeps it as it is - so the 'less skilled' can play this 'challenging hardcore game' too..)

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Aim_Deep написал:

Melee is fine.

It's spells and range attacks that are way OP.

Everyone wants power creep all to hell. But IMO you shouldnt be able to do 15 maps/uber w/o 300ex in gear. Should be rare and require great sacrifice not FOTM and 20ex as is today.

Those times when gear was harder to get isn't really going to come back, so you can't make the game revolve around builds that cost that much, simply because its not really possible to have stuff be that expensive unless they are made massively more rare again, which will never happen.


Melee is not fine, it has fundamental issues that as long as they dont get addressed will always mean that melee is at a disadvantage even if the power creep was brought down some, it doesn't matter because the state of melee would still be shit.


If melee was so fine how come every single character you have but one is non melee?


The proof is in the pudding as they say. Melee has some serious issues and the statement that GGG made pre 2.0 about melee being addressed in 2.0 never really happened. Fortify is one step of many that is necessary for melee to be good.

It's normal. Path of least Resistance, which is spells and range attacks. And I disagree Melee is fine its spells and range thats OP. You cant be ignorant of power creep everyone is talking about? Rage and spells is what they mean. Not melee.

If you nerfed all spells and range by 65% melee would start to be very attractive.

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Perq написал:

Yup. I wrote it in there, and I'll wrote it here again - I think the main problem is amount of MORE DAMAGE supports. It is not longer about playing with mechanics - its about stacking damage. And when one type of builds can stack more of those, you need to balance the game around it, meaning everything else will be left in the cold. :V

Solution: Rework new MORE DAMAGE supports, so they are mechanics based and not simply DPS boosters, and balance the game accordingly.

Spark just tried playing with mechanics. Spark - echo - increased duration - pierce...

Guess what's happening in 2.3?

Sparks dissipate after moving 150 units. No more carpet of sparkles. No more sparks zipping through a zillion targets forever and ever.

Also, regarding the whole "more" gems paradigm, let me ask you this:

How many different mechanics do you want skills to possibly use?

For instance, take an arrow skill (EG Lightning Arrow). LA - GMP - Pierce - WED - Added lightning - increased crits/Void manip/whatever. What mechanics do you want it supported by? More projectiles? Okay, there's GMP. A modification gem to acquire more targets? Okay, there's chain or pierce. What other mechanics do you want to see? Attack speed? That's just more damage. Increased critical strikes? Just more damage (usually. Pathfinder would have something to say about that).

I mean, when you boil it down, there are very few things you can do with an attack.

1) Depth of damage (aka multiplier supports)

2) Breadth of damage (aka things like GMP, chain, splash)

3) Resource generation/conservation (reduced mana, leech, blood magic, charge generation).

4) Buffs for use (fortify).

For instance, consider Blade Vortex for a Pathfinder.

BV - echo - increased duration - inc. aoe/conc effect - increased critical strikes - increased critical damage/phys to lightning.

So let's see:

Skill - mechanics - mechanics - breadth of damage - mechanics (flask charges) - depth of damage.

Essentially, the sixth link is straight depth of damage. Yet people still say "OPOP".

Frankly, I think the melee whiners won't be happy until their cumbersome style of "click on a monster" has meaning.

And that's just silly.

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Aim_Deep написал:

It's normal. Path of least Resistance, which is spells and range attacks. And I disagree Melee is fine its spells and range thats OP. You cant be ignorant of power creep everyone is talking about? Rage and spells is what they mean. Not melee.

If you nerfed all spells and range by 65% melee would start to be very attractive.

So which spells are OPOP?

If melee players call EQ a "spell", does conc effect blade vortex get to be melee? Does discharge get to be melee?

Or is the only "melee" the style that demands you namelock a monster?

Because sorry, the rest of the game shouldn't be nerfed because there are a few mechanically garbage skills.