Melee Balance. With 600 upvotes, I think this deserves a little attention from GGG
^ I have played melee with a mirrored dagger (DAGGER, not axe or mace or whatever) and with a mirrored bow. Try it yourself and see the difference. Your post seems trolly at best.
^ I have played melee with a mirrored dagger (DAGGER, not axe or mace or whatever) and with a mirrored bow. Try it yourself and see the difference. Your post seems trolly at best.
Short-range versus long-range balance in this game is a completely lost cause. Absolutely everything short-range can do - and virtually everything it could do - either doesn't matter or long-range can do it better. If short-range versus long-range balance is a deal-breaker for you, your only viable option is to wait out this game's life cycle, hope there is a sequel, and hope it doesn't fuck it up.
Short-range can do things that long range can only dream of. Short range has some of the most immense DPS in existence. Short range has fantastic mobility, and amazing sustain. It also has max block.
Long range can do that with wands, maybe, and it'll be clunky and immobile. Meanwhile, whirling vortex/coc discharge.
So far, the only thing that melee apologists have maybe a decent point on is that it's hard as hell to get a good weapon.
Want to know why melee caster is so much more playable than melee attacker?
Because you don't need a god-tier caster dagger to actually play a caster build, and because spell damage weapon modifiers are global, rather than local in nature.
You have a spell dagger that leaves something to be desired? Don't worry, it's barely any skin off your back.
You have a shitty weapon as an attacker? GTFO.
And no, the game should not be balanced so that the only way to enjoy yourself is to have a mirror-worthy weapon and leave everyone else hating the game. However, that doesn't change the fact that attack builds are far more dependent on needing far more out of a specific slot of gear, one which will get exponentially more expensive as more pieces align in just the right fashion.
It's the reason why so many people played sorcs, necros, and later paladins in Diablo 2. It was the old joke "oh hey, you can solo hell naked". The same sort of concept applies here. Local vs. global.
Some melee builds DO have easy access to top-tier weapons. Hegemony's Era & Atziri's Disfavour are fine examples. Though, even with these ultra-powerful weapons, most melee skills are lame.
^ I have played melee with a mirrored dagger (DAGGER, not axe or mace or whatever) and with a mirrored bow. Try it yourself and see the difference. Your post seems trolly at best.
Try it?
Hold on, let me pull a mirror out of nowhere.
AKA: "if I had the actual itemization, I would".
I have both.
My duelist is literally trash tier compared to my ranger. Every time I go to play him I end up logging out after 20 mins or doing 1-2 afk lake runs then closing the client. This is on a build that I levelled to 100 on, a build that I legitimately enjoyed. Melee just keeps falling further and further behind.
There is no aspect of gamemplay in which he outperforms my ranger, there isn't even an area he could even if he had perfect gear. This is especially true of leech. My ranger has always had leech coming out of her ears and that was PHYS leech whilst using PtL + Hatred + HoA (without any of the leech nodes she is currently testing for reflect maps). My duelist can barely sustain leech vs packs and he doesn't convert away any base phys.....gg
If he had +1.5k hp, double his current dps, and capped block the results might begin to converge. maybe
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle.
You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.
Последняя редакция: Ashen_Shugar_IV#4253. Время: 1 июн. 2016 г., 07:47:01
Short-range versus long-range balance in this game is a completely lost cause. Absolutely everything short-range can do - and virtually everything it could do - either doesn't matter or long-range can do it better. If short-range versus long-range balance is a deal-breaker for you, your only viable option is to wait out this game's life cycle, hope there is a sequel, and hope it doesn't fuck it up.
Short-range can do things that long range can only dream of. Short range has some of the most immense DPS in existence. Short range has fantastic mobility, and amazing sustain. It also has max block.
Long range can do that with wands, maybe, and it'll be clunky and immobile. Meanwhile, whirling vortex/coc discharge.
So far, the only thing that melee apologists have maybe a decent point on is that it's hard as hell to get a good weapon.
Want to know why melee caster is so much more playable than melee attacker?
Because you don't need a god-tier caster dagger to actually play a caster build, and because spell damage weapon modifiers are global, rather than local in nature.
You have a spell dagger that leaves something to be desired? Don't worry, it's barely any skin off your back.
You have a shitty weapon as an attacker? GTFO.
And no, the game should not be balanced so that the only way to enjoy yourself is to have a mirror-worthy weapon and leave everyone else hating the game. However, that doesn't change the fact that attack builds are far more dependent on needing far more out of a specific slot of gear, one which will get exponentially more expensive as more pieces align in just the right fashion.
It's the reason why so many people played sorcs, necros, and later paladins in Diablo 2. It was the old joke "oh hey, you can solo hell naked". The same sort of concept applies here. Local vs. global.
Some melee builds DO have easy access to top-tier weapons. Hegemony's Era & Atziri's Disfavour are fine examples. Though, even with these ultra-powerful weapons, most melee skills are lame.
Even with access to those two your DPS still doesnt hold a candle to non-melee and youre using psuedo ranged abilities like sweep and earthquake with them anyways.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
I wouldn't call Sweep "pseude melee" it is as melee as it gets. I just pretend skills like Heavy Strike to not even exist. I hardly believe it is actually possible to swing a big ass axe or hammer and to not hit additional targets with it, and at this point every single melee skill has AoE, which technically allows it to not be melee.
PoE is actually one of the few games that actually sticks to single target abilities, D3 has a few (which often suck to a similar degree). After all there are only two options
a) Make any ranged ability as terrible as melee
b) Just make Melee abilities more fun (and remove the few that don't allow this)
This would also mean making them more weapon specific to give them weapon specific AoEs. Swords and Axes would hit in an Arc while, while a Mace would maybe hit in a circular AoE (basically native Melee Splash). And of course these skills should get the cyclone threatment. If you use a huge 2h-weapon the AoE might as well be slightly larger.
I wouldn't call Sweep "pseude melee" it is as melee as it gets. I just pretend skills like Heavy Strike to not even exist. I hardly believe it is actually possible to swing a big ass axe or hammer and to not hit additional targets with it, and at this point every single melee skill has AoE, which technically allows it to not be melee.
PoE is actually one of the few games that actually sticks to single target abilities, D3 has a few (which often suck to a similar degree). After all there are only two options
a) Make any ranged ability as terrible as melee
b) Just make Melee abilities more fun (and remove the few that don't allow this)
This would also mean making them more weapon specific to give them weapon specific AoEs. Swords and Axes would hit in an Arc while, while a Mace would maybe hit in a circular AoE (basically native Melee Splash). And of course these skills should get the cyclone threatment. If you use a huge 2h-weapon the AoE might as well be slightly larger.
Sweep stops being "melee" as soon as you get any Area of Effect Modifiers. As soon as that happens, in conjunction with knockback it very much so become a pseudo ranged ability.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
Sweep stops being "melee" as soon as you get any Area of Effect Modifiers. As soon as that happens, in conjunction with knockback it very much so become a pseudo ranged ability.
Yeah, but its DPS doesnt hold a canlde to ranged skills. Only Earthquake can compete, cause it does everything Sweep does, but deals 2-3 times higher DPS.
Then try it with a low-exalt-tier item from each category... The results will actually be pretty close to the same.
You own a Voltaxic Rift, for instance... Even Post 2.3, try seeing how PurplePixie's clear with LA (though TBH, I might replace that Chain gem with a WED one) is compared to a genuine melee (read: not CoC/etc) build. I'm pretty sure your LA Voltaxic build will outpace even a 6L Atziri's Disfavor, and DEFINITELY will beat pretty much any weapon you could buy for an exalt.
My guides: Summon Homing Missile (SRS) | Act II starter RF | Budget Oro's Flicker Strike
Short-range versus long-range balance in this game is a completely lost cause. Absolutely everything short-range can do - and virtually everything it could do - either doesn't matter or long-range can do it better. If short-range versus long-range balance is a deal-breaker for you, your only viable option is to wait out this game's life cycle, hope there is a sequel, and hope it doesn't fuck it up.
The fact is that the game is too fast. Halve the movement speed of monsters and players, halve the number of monsters but increase their life by 200%. Then "single target" skills would still be viable.
