What the...thing...is actually happening?...I don't even...

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Hercanic написал:

FUN FACT: Wraeclast is an extremely accurate recreation of Australia. If you rearrange the anagram, it becomes obvious: Asctrelwa, which is also the correct way to pronounce Australia.

This is correct. Ask any New Zealander, and they will confirm it.

Also, at least one of the OP's criticisms rings very true: The game does a piss-poor job of explaining Piety. Who is she? Where is she from? How did she get to where she is now? What motivates her?

Most importantly, why is that everyone ELSE seems to know the answers to these questions, and appears to think your character does as well (many of the characters in Lioneye's Watch refer to her by name, with no additional explanation)?

I'll tell you why. Because much of the game was play-tested by people who were already super familiar with the lore. Just like movie editors leaving crucial movie scenes on the cutting room floor, because they are too familiar with the material to realize that that information was vital to audience understanding. This is what is known as a plot hole, and it's worth pointing out (thanks, OP) because, unlike movies ineligible for director's edition recuts, plotholes in games can be filled after the fact, and GGG has already expressed interest in beefing up the lore. I am puzzled that they have yet to address this particularly huge omission, however. In comparison to the craploads of additional lore they have added to the game since this criticism first came up, fixing this would be trivial.

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SunL4D2 написал:

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Perq написал:

if you don't like it, don't play / watch it!

First of all I never said I disliked game - I love it. Don't put words into my mouth, please.

Also this quote above is one of the worst things to say. Ever.

*Sorry for triple post. I am not sure whether I can delete my post, so I will leave it the way it is.

mezmery, but I PoE's World. Even from pieces of information it looks interesting for me.

Errr, you just said you don't like the presentation. The presentation isn't great, yes, but at the same time it won't force you to know all of that stuff. It allows you to chose - mow monsters mindlessly, or mow them knowing why you are doing this (and what is going on). So I'll say it again - if you don't like the lore, don't try forcing it upon yourself. Game is sure not trying to.

PoE's lore is scattered all around PoE. Some of the lore comes from unique item's flavor text, so unless you get a hold of these items, you won't know everything (you can, of course, use Wikipedia, but that way you might just as well read whole PoE's lore...). Optional quests are almost a must. You also need to find most of the environmental stones/plaques/graves/artifacts/whatnot. Game won't force you, nor help you. It is you who explores the Wraeclast, and not a sight-seeing trip with guide. :V

So, ff you cannot stand listening to a NPC, who happen to not be speaking perfectly-great English, which is not engineered so that everyone feels like listening to it, I'm gonna go ahead and guess you wouldn't be also interested in listening to WW2 veteran, who's speech is severely impaired, but he has a lot of very interesting thing to say. If you are REALLY interested in the lore, you will read text, without even the voice over on it. (Also see: Shadowrun: Dragonfall)

Once again - PoE WILL NOT try to keep you interested in the lore. The lore is great, but unless you do your own research and actually get involved in it, you won't get anything interesting out of it.
And honestly, it might not even be their design - but tbh, it works just well. :B

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gibbousmoon написал:

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Hercanic написал:

FUN FACT: Wraeclast is an extremely accurate recreation of Australia. If you rearrange the anagram, it becomes obvious: Asctrelwa, which is also the correct way to pronounce Australia.

This is correct. Ask any New Zealander, and they will confirm it.

Also, at least one of the OP's criticisms rings very true: The game does a piss-poor job of explaining Piety. Who is she? Where is she from? How did she get to where she is now? What motivates her?

Her real name is Vinia. (also see Vinia's Token - Piety is on the card. Orb of Regrets go pretty well with Vinia's history btw).

From Wikipedia page (which takes information from various sources, scattered in the game):

Background
Before the events of Path of Exile, Piety was known by the name Vinia in Oriath, where she funded her practise of thaumaturgy through prostitution. Due to her crimes she was condemned to burn in a pyre, but before her execution took place she supped with High Templar Dominus, who had come to hear her confession. However, Vinia was able to convince Dominus to let her live. It is possible, though never directly stated, that she achieved this by sharing her knowledge of the powers lying dormant in Wraeclast. The fact that the banishment of criminals to the continent began after Vinia was pardoned by Dominus supports the theory. After Vinia was granted her amnesty she enjoyed the patronage of Dominus, who made her his right-hand woman and gave her the name "Piety" to reflect her new loyalties.

Sorry don't know anything about the lore other than I'm an exile. I just like making builds and blowing off time killing monsters.

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Perq написал:

Her real name is Vinia. (also see Vinia's Token - Piety is on the card. Orb of Regrets go pretty well with Vinia's history btw).

From Wikipedia page (which takes information from various sources, scattered in the game):

Background
Before the events of Path of Exile, Piety was known by the name Vinia in Oriath, where she funded her practise of thaumaturgy through prostitution. Due to her crimes she was condemned to burn in a pyre, but before her execution took place she supped with High Templar Dominus, who had come to hear her confession. However, Vinia was able to convince Dominus to let her live. It is possible, though never directly stated, that she achieved this by sharing her knowledge of the powers lying dormant in Wraeclast. The fact that the banishment of criminals to the continent began after Vinia was pardoned by Dominus supports the theory. After Vinia was granted her amnesty she enjoyed the patronage of Dominus, who made her his right-hand woman and gave her the name "Piety" to reflect her new loyalties.

You don't find out about any of this until well into Act 3. Piety's been running all over the place, making fun of you and shit well before then.

If it was *supposed* to be a mystery, I wouldn't call it a plothole. But it clearly is not supposed to be a mystery. It's just an omission.

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gibbousmoon написал:

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Perq написал:

Her real name is Vinia. (also see Vinia's Token - Piety is on the card. Orb of Regrets go pretty well with Vinia's history btw).

From Wikipedia page (which takes information from various sources, scattered in the game):

Background
Before the events of Path of Exile, Piety was known by the name Vinia in Oriath, where she funded her practise of thaumaturgy through prostitution. Due to her crimes she was condemned to burn in a pyre, but before her execution took place she supped with High Templar Dominus, who had come to hear her confession. However, Vinia was able to convince Dominus to let her live. It is possible, though never directly stated, that she achieved this by sharing her knowledge of the powers lying dormant in Wraeclast. The fact that the banishment of criminals to the continent began after Vinia was pardoned by Dominus supports the theory. After Vinia was granted her amnesty she enjoyed the patronage of Dominus, who made her his right-hand woman and gave her the name "Piety" to reflect her new loyalties.

You don't find out about any of this until well into Act 3. Piety's been running all over the place, making fun of you and shit well before then.

If it was *supposed* to be a mystery, I wouldn't call it a plothole. But it clearly is not supposed to be a mystery. It's just an omission.

Can you tell me how the hell would an exile tell who she is, given she is running away from the given exile all the time, and gives him no information whatsoever? How are those people, who are in Act 1/2 could tell? It is supposed to be mystery, to that point, because it simply makes sense.
Would a long monolog about her make it any better? Nope. If you want to know who she is, you need to find it.

Ever played Borderlands? Know the Handsome Jack character? You don't know JACK (HEH) shit about him until... well... fucking ever. He is making fun of you, all game long. In fact, this is not the only design on "recurring" villain. If you look around, they are actually pretty common. ;)

So, this is exactly how Piety is presented - you keep on chasing her, she is making fun of you, and is annoying as hell. You learn to hate her when she is blocking your path, killing some random dude (Rip Tilemonen)... and then runs away. Every single time. You are only supposed to know, that she is evil, annoying, and she is stirring some bad shit.

And to be honest, I'm pretty tired of "villains", who tell you all of their evil plans to you, or who they are and where they come from, the first time you see them. WHY would anyone tell you that, given your enemy can use that information against you?! I find such villains more of a goofy idiots, more than a real threat.

My only problem with the story is that there is no sense of time.
Journeying from Act 1 to act 4 I would imagine would take months, or even years, but there's no sense of that ingame.

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Perq написал:

Can you tell me how the hell would an exile tell who she is, given she is running away from the given exile all the time, and gives him no information whatsoever? How are those people, who are in Act 1/2 could tell? It is supposed to be mystery, to that point, because it simply makes sense.
Would a long monolog about her make it any better? Nope. If you want to know who she is, you need to find it.

I think you've missed my point completely. But I'll say it a second time.

It's not a plothole that Piety's existence is a mystery. It's a plothole that the Act 1 NPCs treat her like she's a known quantity--not at all a mystery--while talking to your character, as if your character SHOULD know who she is.

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SunL4D2 написал:

1. Who are exiles? Where are they send on these ship? Why ship has crashed?

They aren't exactly exiles, they are just on vacation but that's how it ends if you want to make a cheap trip to the mainland. Now seriously, look at any lexica and check exiled, it doesn't need any more explanation. They don't explain to you what "walking" means so why should they explain what exiles are and I guess the game makes the reasons pretty clear (you know those lines the characters speak when they are selected... yeah I know you are likely too quick to start the game to have ever read or heard them).

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2. What is Wraelcast? It's continent, coutry, whole World? What's happened with Wraelcast? Why are there zombies, infected animals and everyone tries to kill me in general? Why I have to help these people? Why I have to move forward and can't just stay in Lyonese's watch, sleep with Nessa and buy food for items I get from slaying level 1 zombies from time to time? I understand that I am - OMG HOLY SHIT CHOSEN ONE!111!!, but still there should be reason to move forward.

Again it is explicitly stated that the continent is Wraeclast. However right now the whole game consists of Wraeclast, so it might as well be the world. However again there are other parts even mentioned in the game and no those are not other planets. Ngamakanui is maybe some island or another continent. And again it doesn't really matter it might also just be the home of the karui and they call their land like that.

Also you can stay in Lioneyes Watch. The game doesn't continue but you can stay in Lioneyes Watch. However if you leave Lioneyes Watch you might find out why there are zombies and why everyone wants you dead (which is not true, not everyone wants you dead). And again you are pretty much told why you should move on.

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3. Why I have to kill Brutus, Piety, etc? Who are Brutus? Who are Piety? Who are Caom? Who are Domunus? Who are Malachai? Who are Voll? Who are Vaal? Who are Karui? I understood only that they should be insanely badass dudues given how they kick ass and look.

4. What is Nightmare? What/who is Beast?

Who IS Brutus, it is just one. And at the moment you defeat him you don't really know. He is just in your way. The Karui used boats to travel along the coast... due to your recent accident you are not so fond of boats, so you have to find another way... sadly Brutus is blocking it so he has to die... regardless of who he is. However Voll should be fairly well explained, if you care about it, your character doesn't really need to know it. The Vaal are also kinda explained, but they are so long gone that again it doesn't matter.

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I also have one suggestion. I understand that for already successful game like PoE with such rich gameplay where plot is secondary thing, it's maybe not neceassary but I think you can't fix existing quotes from characters / Lore objects but you still can work out intro, boss introduction / defeat and outro videos to make understanding of the Game's World easier.

No... please no. Diablo III has all this shit, where each and every boss explains what he wants to do and who he is. Diablo II did it right. Cain gave you some information (if you stayed a while and listened), however for your character it didn't matter. You didn't need to know about the archangels or the greater evils you had to stop them, regardless of what they were. It is the same in PoE. The story of Kaom doesn't matter to your character, he can ask the avaible characters or listen to them or read the carvings the karui left, but he doesn't have to. And there is no reason why Kaom should introduce himself to some random guy, he says some introduction things but that's it. Daresso is already a bit much in what he says, however it fits his character. And Piety certainly has some interest in your character since he was able to defeat Brutus, thats all, but again why should she explain anything about herself to your character. She does so later... if you actually ask her.

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It's not a plothole that Piety's existence is a mystery. It's a plothole that the Act 1 NPCs treat her like she's a known quantity--not at all a mystery--while talking to your character, as if your character SHOULD know who she is.

Well she was a prostitute in Theopolis... so maybe they all were customers, considering that all the people in Act I are also exiles. Jokes aside, not a single Act I npc has anything meaningful to say about Piety. The first character to tell you some things about Piety is Helena... and considering she is a former Blackguard that makes sense. Also Piety supposedly started the whole exiling thing (likely to get bodies for her experiments in Sarn to the continent), so she might be kinda familar to some of the earlier exiles, but again she isn't really mentioned before Helena speaks about her. Also Helena on the other hand might expect you to know her, since she basically witnesses Piety addressing you in the Chamber of Sins, which again makes sense.

Again PoE borrows a lot from the D2 style of story telling, or even more so D1. Both games left you in the dark for some while. D2 lifts the shadow a bit earlier, due to the involvement of deckard cain who just knows what happened, because he went through all this before. But in Diablo I it takes some time to get information about what is actually going on (if I'm not mistaken Adria first tells you about Diablo). And PoE similar to the Diablo games (D2 had the Chapter Intros which gave some information your character couldn't have, but that was the one exception)... well the first 2, didn't gave you information your character couldn't have, which was a good design. It left questions open but also meant that information you gathered from books or other people wasn't necessarily right, since they basically told you legends they heard.

PoE partly follows a similar way hands out information very carefully. Your character basically accidently gets into this. He is first asked to get a medical chest and to kill a necromancer. However he stumples upon some glyphs on the way to the necromancer and opens a secret passage upon consulting with the people of lioneyes watch and tarleigh asks him if he could make contact with people inland to help them out. On his explorations he finds the prison (and I think the information that it is the only way inland is now also avaible) and kills Brutus, however Piety blocks the road forward. So he finds another way. Later he accidently revives the Oversoul... it is a bit mysterious here how Piety got to Sarn, she must have used another way, which is one of the few things the game explained badly... however she might just have used a portal.

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RootCookie написал:

My only problem with the story is that there is no sense of time.
Journeying from Act 1 to act 4 I would imagine would take months, or even years, but there's no sense of that ingame.

Isn't that kind of irrelevant for a game like this? Sure if there was a movie or book adaptation (lol) that information is relevant and probably in the graphic novels that came out/will come out. As far as I know the graphic novels have lore in them, not about the actual exiles we play at their current time.

Our exiles are not anything particularly special. I'd assume in our minds, one of each class is meant to exist since thousands of Rangers with the same backstory isn't logically feasible. Other than that though, each class we play as happens to be the class that "survived" and is currently moving on beyond Malachai and the Beast. It could have taken them years to cross Wraeclast, it may have taken days and their combat abilities before exile helped them cruise through everything.

There is so much stuff guys...

To begin with why our exile find himself at the coast again?