Bad mechanics and player retention -core mechanics that need a major rework

Greetings everyone,

Path of Exile is just about to release patch 3.0, effectively finishing the game as a complete piece of work. However horrific game mechanics are still prevalent in some bizarre mindset that it adds to the game play experience.

Here is a list of game breaking mechanics that put a halt to the smooth play experience of the game:

-The need to have the largest life pool possible.

-In addition to the above, you then have to deal with one shot scenarios with a life pool, and stun lock with CI/ES

-Trading being a fundamental part of the game, but GGG considering it as not important to game play and not taking full control over the experience.

-high cost transactions left to RNG (crafting).

-Bringing in hardcore mechanics into normal: the labyrinth and loosing experience on death.


Life and CI/ES builds




Trading



High cost crafting




Hardcore mechanics in normal



In summary

Personally I am at the point where I regret having spent money on this game. It really has something here, but the attitude of GGG in some aspects of the game is reminiscent of developers who strike it rich on an 'early access' title on Steam. GGG has a vision of what they want the game to be, but for whatever reason are not cleaning up the current mechanics to avoid situations that prevent the player from actually playing or enjoying the game. Lately new conctent has just been more and more spam to be challenging (Kaom, Malachai, the labyrinth, etc) rather than having good Ai that the player needs to think about, and adapt to. I would like to say this is lazy development, but GGG has put a lot of time into developing this content. There is a disconnect here and that is a big problem.



Even the bug reports section is disheartening. You can post a bug, and never get a reply from a GGG staff member. It is also open to anyone to reply which leaves a lot of people leaving their opinions on how it should work, and being a collection of things irrelevant to the report. I am a technical moderator for War Thunder which is a similar 'Cinderalla story' as POE is. We make sure that we have clear guidelines for bug reports, and that all reports are answered. It is a little bit more work to get those replies in, but it has a huge impact on the players' satisfaction with the game.

Also as a statement to the currently schizophrenic ideology of GGG: the best solution to these problems I have outlined is to take an OP build from one of the hardcore players of this game, and just play it (this deals with life, stun lock, having the gear for the right colour slots, etc, etc). It also involves a lot of time trading to make the currency to get the gear. What exalts I get: I find, or get enough currency to trade for. I don't wheel, deal, or scam poe.trade for hundreds of exalts of cash, and that leaves certain gear forever out of reach. Yet, even the level of trading I engage in insn't supposed to be a necessary part of the game...

I really had enjoyed playing POE, but I have had enough of dealing with the mechanics that put actually spending time playing the game to a screeching halt.

Life could use some love but....


Trading is ok, maybe some QOL improvment would be neat, but stop trying to make it change to an auction house, not gonna happen. And many people would leave the game.

Crafting is good and perfect right now, what do you want???? getting super easily a 6 link. No... this wouldn't feel right. It's great when you have worked for something.

Lab is great and most player enjoy it. Just a minority that keep voicing their opinion over and over and over again. Not gonna change soon. Most people are good with it.



Maybe the game wasn't for you?

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diablofdb написал:

Life could use some love but....


Trading is ok, maybe some QOL improvment would be neat, but stop trying to make it change to an auction house, not gonna happen. And many people would leave the game.

Crafting is good and perfect right now, what do you want???? getting super easily a 6 link. No... this wouldn't feel right. It's great when you have worked for something.

Lab is great and most player enjoy it. Just a minority that keep voicing their opinion over and over and over again. Not gonna change soon. Most people are good with it.



Maybe the game wasn't for you?

My overall point is the need to address mechanics that are deterrents to playing or enjoying the game. This basic concept is pretty obvious for any game. You don't want to stop your player from playing the game, let alone put them in a situation that is completely not enjoyable.

Trading is 'ok' (in qhotes), but honestly it is getting worse and worse due to the behaviour of other players, and GGG putting themselves in a position to not police it. Either an auction house is needed, or GGG has to stop balancing the game as if trading is a fundamental part of the game.
Dealing with scammers and spending a few frustrating hours trying to trade in order to continue playing is something GGG needs to address.

My point wasn't about 6 linking. 6 linking is not up to RNG as it is guaranteed with enough currency. Chromes aren't. Exalts aren't. I am curious how many serious players use exalts for adding mods to high level gear. I bet they are used more for master crafting as the results are guaranteed.

I spent more chromes than I could ever find solo self found, and I can't progress with that chest piece. It goes against GGG's philosophy, let alone caused me to quit playing.

The concept of the lab is ok, but the fact that it forces mechanics from hardcore play onto normal mode is not. I have played on a bad internet connection (which is playable for core content) and hit a wall not being able to do the lab and quit playing. Not a situation a player should be in.

and my point is..... the player base enjoy these mechanics and play this game for it. Have you ever considered this game is not for you instead of wanthing to ruin it for other?

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Lord_Tao написал:

My overall point is the need to address mechanics that are deterrents to playing or enjoying the game. This basic concept is pretty obvious for any game. You don't want to stop your player from playing the game, let alone put them in a situation that is completely not enjoyable.

Trading is 'ok' (in qhotes), but honestly it is getting worse and worse due to the behaviour of other players, and GGG putting themselves in a position to not police it. Either an auction house is needed, or GGG has to stop balancing the game as if trading is a fundamental part of the game.

My point wasn't about 6 linking. 6 linking is not up to RNG as it is guaranteed with enough currency. Chromes aren't. Exalts aren't. I am curious how many serious players use exalts for adding mods to high level gear. I bet they are used more for master crafting as the results are guaranteed.

The concept of the lab is ok, but the fact that it forces mechanics from hardcore play onto normal mode is not.

Then play SSF like many others choose to do, while the game might be "balanced" around the idea of trade you can achieve many endgame goals without trading.

There are so many ways to get 6 links its not even funny, specifically div cards that are really cheap. It only becomes an issue when you want a unique item 6 linked, which takes more.


Except it doesn't force the actual downsides of it, aka losing a character. Its one of the better designed pieces of content in the game, in addition its but a small fraction of the time you play a character, its really not that big of a deal.

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diablofdb написал:

and my point is..... the player base enjoy these mechanics and play this game for it. Have you ever considered this game is not for you instead of wanthing to ruin it for other?

Neither of us have the statistical data to make claims about the satisfaction of the community. I am pointing out red flags in philosophy of general game design, and contradictions in GGG's stance on aspects of the game.

Also you are jumping to conclusions with "..wanting to ruin it for others". Sure an auction house is a contention debate, but what about resetting balance to not factor in trading? What about moving the hardcore aspects of the lab to...hardcore?

Also I doubt having control over trade, and thus getting rid of the scammers, and other degenerates will 'ruin the game' for anyone. Arguably it wouldn't even ruin the game for the scammers. It would probably get them to actually play more.

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goetzjam написал:

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Lord_Tao написал:

My overall point is the need to address mechanics that are deterrents to playing or enjoying the game. This basic concept is pretty obvious for any game. You don't want to stop your player from playing the game, let alone put them in a situation that is completely not enjoyable.

Trading is 'ok' (in qhotes), but honestly it is getting worse and worse due to the behaviour of other players, and GGG putting themselves in a position to not police it. Either an auction house is needed, or GGG has to stop balancing the game as if trading is a fundamental part of the game.

My point wasn't about 6 linking. 6 linking is not up to RNG as it is guaranteed with enough currency. Chromes aren't. Exalts aren't. I am curious how many serious players use exalts for adding mods to high level gear. I bet they are used more for master crafting as the results are guaranteed.

The concept of the lab is ok, but the fact that it forces mechanics from hardcore play onto normal mode is not.

Then play SSF like many others choose to do, while the game might be "balanced" around the idea of trade you can achieve many endgame goals without trading.

There are so many ways to get 6 links its not even funny, specifically div cards that are really cheap. It only becomes an issue when you want a unique item 6 linked, which takes more.


Except it doesn't force the actual downsides of it, aka losing a character. Its one of the better designed pieces of content in the game, in addition its but a small fraction of the time you play a character, its really not that big of a deal.

Please read what I post before replying. Nothing I said is about wanting a game balanced or even not balanced around trade. I also have no issues with 6 linking items.

I think you have a hard time with games that can be lost.

I'm sure you'll claim it's bad game design, but punishing losses are something that are actually sought out and preferred. Most modern games can't be lost in any appreciable way, and can eventually be beaten with sheer persistence and no planning or skill. Your paragraph on the labyrinth makes your stance extremely clear.

Similarly, it's not a problem that ES-based builds die to stuns. It's a minor problem that it takes too much defensive investment for life to be worth a damn, but the top end of any defensive setup is supposed to be fallible in some way. Godhood is the goal, but it should be an unattainable one.

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pneuma написал:

I think you have a hard time with games that can be lost.

I'm sure you'll claim it's bad game design, but punishing losses are something that are actually sought out and preferred. Most modern games can't be lost in any appreciable way, and can eventually be beaten with sheer persistence and no planning or skill. Your paragraph on the labyrinth makes your stance extremely clear.

Similarly, it's not a problem that ES-based builds die to stuns. It's a minor problem that it takes too much defensive investment for life to be worth a damn, but the top end of any defensive setup is supposed to be fallible in some way. Godhood is the goal, but it should be an unattainable one.

Exactly, as an old gamer I've always enjoyed the rush and excitement of trying to complete the next level in Castlevania or Megaman. Dying was painful, having to start over could really fuck you up.


So you had to step up your game, learn the mechanics and become better. I think the older generations of video games were harder and more punishing. And most old gamer enjoyed these. And we have to keep in mind, there's a very big amount of the players base that are currently playing POE that are old gamer coming from Diablo 1 and 2.

And if we get rid of those mechanics that could cause that player base to leave the game.


Just the experience penality when you die in softcore, I always see a thread about why we should remove it. Meanwhile I remember Diablo 1 you would lose every single piece of gear when you die, and had to go back in the dungeon where you died to get it back. This was intense and stressful..... and great.

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pneuma написал:

I think you have a hard time with games that can be lost.

I'm sure you'll claim it's bad game design, but punishing losses are something that are actually sought out and preferred. Most modern games can't be lost in any appreciable way, and can eventually be beaten with sheer persistence and no planning or skill. Your paragraph on the labyrinth makes your stance extremely clear.

Similarly, it's not a problem that ES-based builds die to stuns. It's a minor problem that it takes too much defensive investment for life to be worth a damn, but the top end of any defensive setup is supposed to be fallible in some way. Godhood is the goal, but it should be an unattainable one.

You are incorrect in you assumption about me having a hard time with games that can be lost. The whole 'enjoyment' (for lack of a better word) of loosing games, is to do better: strategize how to beat the situation.

You should read my point on the lab again. I didn't say anything about the concept. Only that making the traps do a percentage of life is a bad idea. Navigating traps and dying to missteps is fine, but dying because you don't have the correct information of where the traps "really are" is bad gameplay.


There are over 1000 passive skills in the game, and thousands of gear combinations. There should be a build for every situation and a death for every build. However hit points is only one component to any character, and, naturally, you could make a build to maximize this at the expense of other bonuses. The problem is that the game currently requires (railroads) builds into NEEDING to grab all the life or ES that they can, and still hit a wall in gameplay that these builds should be designed to avoid. Maximizing life should be proof against one shots, but the lack of damage should make you prone to being swarmed and take more DPS than you can deal with.

ES has to deal with potentially taking completely lethal damage from a mob, since everything will probably hit. There is an argument for being stunned more often as well (which I have come to disagree with), but stun lock is simply a horrible mechanic, especially when a player is forced to consider it as one of two viable paths. Think about it from the other side of the situation: How much of a bonus should one have to warrant a mechanic where any mob can easily incapacitate you without reducing your HP to 0? Taking more hits, as well as a higher chance of being stunned with less damage is a double nerf. As we have seen in any game, double nerfs are not good for gameplay.

Both points above are compounded my experience gain loss on death. Loosing portals is probably good enough.