It's time to remove the Town Portal scroll

They drop like 500 per map

Do you have any idea how annoying it is to pick them all up?
Totally breaks the flow of the game

Portal gem linked to one of your keys is very nice (just need a gem slot and simple build)

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Chadwixx написал:

Portal gem linked to one of your keys is very nice (just need a gem slot and simple build)

Oh, heck, yes, it is! Sadly, as an SSF player, I also have a fairly annoyingly long road to getting one each league - hit maps, get breach-ready, and do enough breach to get 5 x The Realm cards to drop. From a convenience point of view, I completely understand people asking to simplify this.

It definitely doesn't help that I often play summoners, so I have about four too few spell slots / keybinds as it is, and I can only squeeze portal in on my weapon swap, along with other non-core occasional use spells.

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goetzjam написал:

Anyone that thinks both ID scrolls and portal scrolls serve no purpose in the game, don't even understand the basic foundation of currencies and how they work in this game. Therefore, they should not be suggesting to remove them.

To be sure, people who attack the personal understanding of others instead of making a constructive contribution are the real valuable voices.

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North2 написал:

I'm not following why you think it's circular logic with the reasons you gave. It has nothing to do with efficiency.

It seems to me that it's the norm for patterns of 'high level' (maps+) player behaviour in POE to be concerned with efficiency, and I don't see why this behaviour would be excluded from that. I would definitely dispute the idea that efficiency (people feeling like it's not "worth" stopping much before the end of the map) is not a significant part of why that trend arises.

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North2 написал:

I have not played Grim Dawn so I cannot say for certain, but PoE is unique even among ARGs in the amount of loot that drops. If every item drops IDed, you can and will spend a non-negligible portion of time reading the text of items to see if they're worth picking up. Hell, we have loot filters now just so we could ignore some of it and that's with items being unIDed.

Well, Grim Dawn doesn't have user-customisable loot filters, but it certainly does drop enough loot that they've included a simple rarity filter to help manage it. What you consider a lot of loot is your business, of course.

Not really interested in what you think I or others "will" do. I can tell you that unless I'm on the lookout for a specific upgrade (like if my weapon damage is falling behind), I treat loot in GD much the same as I treat it in most games like this. I partially prioritise smaller items to fit more value in, but mostly it's the same old 'just keep tossing stuff in the backpack and worry about it when it's full'. And if I am looking for a specific upgrade, I stop and ID items on the field in Path of Exile, too, because I don't want to miss it. Either way, that I can stop and carefully read every item label does not mean that I will. In general, I don't find that a worthwhile, enjoyable use of my time, so I don't do it.

But even if someone else spent more time than us checking items, so what? That's how they want to play, clearly, and that's okay; they don't have to play the way you or I do. You raise this 'spending non-negligible portion of time reading item labels' scenario without establishing that it's a problem, as if that's just self-evident. But it isn't self-evident. Indeed, you highlighted the value of breaking up fights with downtime, the "fight-rest-fight" idea. That's what they're doing - fighting, taking a short breather, and then continuing on to more fighting. They aren't removing the intermittent "safe zone" breaks (you can't sell your items in the field, for a start), and if they want to do more fighting and less careful looting, they're free to.

I see where you're not following me on both points.

When I said it has nothing to do with efficiency, I did not mean that players don't generally gravitate towards the most efficient route. Quite the opposite, in fact: it's when the most efficient way to play, which the game actively encourages, is decidedly unfun that it becomes a problem. My focus is on the 'unfun' part.

Take an example in D3's dark early days: For a brief 2 weeks before they patched it, breaking pots was the most efficient way to farm for players struggling to get to a higher difficulty. Yes, you heard me right. You avoid all mobs and break pots until you find items that you can either use or sell at the auction house. This is clearly a big problem. No player is forced to play this way, but the fact that this wonky balance existed affects everyone in a player-based economy. The price of items are based around all these people finding good loot from pots, leaving the players who actually try to grind it from mobs feeling like nothing of value ever drops for them.

The logic is the same for having all items drop IDed in PoE, but to a lesser extent and admittedly much less clear-cut. You don't find it to be a problem, but I would definitely take time to read the text of items to see if it's worth picking up even though I would not enjoy stopping my 'fighting phase'. The logic of "if you don't like it, don't play it that way" only works in certain situations, because it's really hard to ignore a more efficient way to play that's staring right in front of your face and you can't get away from it without actively gimping yourself.

It is impossible for me to definitively establish that having all loot IDed and stopping to see if it's worth picking up is a problem, because of what I've said before - It's when the most efficient way to play, which the game actively encourages, is decidedly unfun that it becomes a problem. "Unfun" is a matter of opinion. We just happen to fall on opposite sides of this topic.

Yeah I get the whole "players will compulsively grind through boring crap if you make that the most effective path" idea. But then, the GGG even explicitly calls some of its league challenges "grinds". People farm bosses, grind what they find to be the most optimal map for density of drops etc, run the labyrinth over and over to sell enchantments. I'm not sure I'd take a bet that Path of Exile players at high levels are all "having fun" in a moment-to-moment sense; compulsion is how much of the genre works. Not to say that's good or anything, just, you know, if we were to honestly and consistently attack compulsion as a driver in this game, I think we'd find the facade crumbling in more places than just this.

You're the authority on you of course, buuuuut I tend to think most people would pretty quickly learn not to sit and read all the labels, same way they learn to not bother going way out of their way to smash every pot and open every chest, or not to always go back for that one white monster instead of moving on to the next pack or the next map. And with Path of Exile having custom filters already implemented, you'd have tools to not show you a lot of the rubbish in the first place anyway, if you wanted.

But yes, this is a whole multidimensional spectrum of preferences and priorities (eg. reducing "reading" time isn't just ID vs un-ID; we could also, say, not show rarity info, item type names etc). I have no problem with you being at a different place on that spectrum than I am, that's fine :)

I would at least point out that although my personal preference would be the removal of the whole identification mechanic, my initial post was, in line with the topic, just about the removal of the scrolls. The benefits you perceive with identification as a mediator of player self-control don't require identification to be a collectible item, and indeed removing it as one would surely contribute to giving the player less non-monster-killing stuff to spend time reading.

There are so many problems with removing id scrolls and tp scrolls and the fact that many of you don't think deeply enough about it before blindly following people is amazing.


Lets take a look at a few of the issues:


ID scrolls are the lowest form of currency in the game, they serve as a foundation that almost every other currency follows. They give value to things that would otherwise have nothing.

Furthermore, ID scrolls serve a purpose of preventing loot filters and bots from seeing stats on items as they drop. This is important because it rewards people for picking up the item, iding it and if they want dropping it back on the ground. This part could be like d3's method, where you can do it all at once and isn't dependent on being a currency, but in absolutely no form or fashion should rares or uniques always drop id'd. In fact the only way they drop id was a one off race event and magic items have a specific unique that enables it.


One can also mention an spec that isn't play that much, like animate weapon, specifically animate weapon totems and point to why i'd rares or uniques would very much be a bad thing.



Also in regards to iding items, even d3, which is about as casual as much as humanly possible, still keeps unique items unid, although that matters very little when you have access to hacks that see the item stats when they are dropped.


Furthermore, both ID scrolls and portal scrolls serve as early game progression tools, perhaps in the grand scheme of bad players that don't know how to progress properly they don't serve the same purpose as experienced players an people in a team.



So removing ID scrolls 100% would be a mistake, would make botting easier, would enable loot filters to dumb down looting even further and would ruin at least one spec in the process. It removes a possible market for unid items, removes the challenge from them, removes the unid aspect of various things like vinktars flask, the staffs, various chest pieces, ect.

Damn you goetzjam , you stole my thunder!

Removal ID scrolls and getting loot filter capability to filter IDd items based on tier rolls - this would be inevitable implication of this change.

This means that the excitement from the loot identification will be gone. Since majority of the player base use loot filters, it will become meaningless to have bad drops, it's just clutter on the ground.
There will be request for loot filter function to specify base type with specific suffixes to be present and it will eliminate one of the enjoyments from the game - identifying some crap and realizing godly rolls

Yes, argument "i am bored of clicking on items to loot them, it slows me down" is sure valid. Autoloot option to "auto pick up visible stuff from loot filter" makes sense in this play style. But it's a bots dream. Autopiloting builds, playing basically autolooting walking simulator. Connecting the requests "there should be no one shot mechanics"

What would be the point of this game?

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Marxone написал:

Damn you goetzjam , you stole my thunder!

Removal ID scrolls and getting loot filter capability to filter IDd items based on tier rolls - this would be inevitable implication of this change.

This means that the excitement from the loot identification will be gone. Since majority of the player base use loot filters, it will become meaningless to have bad drops, it's just clutter on the ground.
There will be request for loot filter function to specify base type with specific suffixes to be present and it will eliminate one of the enjoyments from the game - identifying some crap and realizing godly rolls

Yes, argument "i am bored of clicking on items to loot them, it slows me down" is sure valid. Autoloot option to "auto pick up visible stuff from loot filter" makes sense in this play style. But it's a bots dream. Autopiloting builds, playing basically autolooting walking simulator. Connecting the requests "there should be no one shot mechanics"

What would be the point of this game?

It would also remove things like getting double the amount of stuff for unid recipes, like chaos, regals, ect. These are things that many people, especially SSF rely on.

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goetzjam написал:

There are so many problems with removing id scrolls and tp scrolls and the fact that many of you don't think deeply enough about it before blindly following people is amazing.


Lets take a look at a few of the issues:


ID scrolls are the lowest form of currency in the game, they serve as a foundation that almost every other currency follows. They give value to things that would otherwise have nothing.

Furthermore, ID scrolls serve a purpose of preventing loot filters and bots from seeing stats on items as they drop. This is important because it rewards people for picking up the item, iding it and if they want dropping it back on the ground. This part could be like d3's method, where you can do it all at once and isn't dependent on being a currency, but in absolutely no form or fashion should rares or uniques always drop id'd. In fact the only way they drop id was a one off race event and magic items have a specific unique that enables it.


One can also mention an spec that isn't play that much, like animate weapon, specifically animate weapon totems and point to why i'd rares or uniques would very much be a bad thing.



Also in regards to iding items, even d3, which is about as casual as much as humanly possible, still keeps unique items unid, although that matters very little when you have access to hacks that see the item stats when they are dropped.


Furthermore, both ID scrolls and portal scrolls serve as early game progression tools, perhaps in the grand scheme of bad players that don't know how to progress properly they don't serve the same purpose as experienced players an people in a team.



So removing ID scrolls 100% would be a mistake, would make botting easier, would enable loot filters to dumb down looting even further and would ruin at least one spec in the process. It removes a possible market for unid items, removes the challenge from them, removes the unid aspect of various things like vinktars flask, the staffs, various chest pieces, ect.

These are all valid points, though some of it is rather trivial and can be fixed very easily even if ID scrolls were removed. In particular, Scroll of Wisdom's role as the base foundation of all currency is not even a problem. The next item up would just become the lowest form of currency. The market might shake up a little initially in ways I cannot really imagine, but that'll settle quickly too.

I'm personally also on the side where ID scrolls have its place and it's not simple enough as to just say, "remove it, there's better ways out there". As I've mentioned before, I cannot think of any other alternative that would fit PoE better.

TP scrolls, on the other hand...I've already stated my case as to why its service is no longer necessary.