D4 as the antidote. Can ya just stop w/ that plz?

Antidote until POE2 comes out.

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grozar написал:

Antidote until POE2 comes out.

PoE is currently going a good direction, I hope we see a more casual friendly game with more tools to empower the users to not need 10 wiki pages open to play. The current Atlas changes give me hope.

everyone talking about itemization but poe itemization same state right now
hp , int str agi , resist
+ plus skills to spells

not much diversity for builds all same

PoE feels unpolished even a decade after its release and has sense not hasn't left beta, it's shallow, with an illusion of depth, the skill tree is the symbol of this lack of depth. DIV might not appear a deep as PoE but is certainly a more polished and smooth looking ARPG, for those of us less interested in depth and more interested in visceral action it promises much, it will be fresh compared to PoE.

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Vesuvius079 написал:

People think D4 is going to kill PoE? Just wait until the D4 refugees start showing up lol.

In what year lol?

June 2023 thru God knows when is going to be a barren wasteland in PoE. If D4's live service sucks, yeah people will return, if not... well maybe I will check out spears in PoE 4.0 sometime in late 2024 haha.

Weird how both On Topic and Off Topic are basically talking about the same thing. I keep having to check which thread and which board I'm in.

Even if DIV crashes and burns and PoE is once again the sanctuary Sanctuary couldn't be (and I just can't see it given the vast chasm in accessibility between the two games atm), GGG will be in the impossible position of once again having keep up with that demand. PoE's Open Beta was pretty ugly, as anyone who was here can attest. So many growing pains. PoE's Release was...a non-event as a result, really. Oh, the game is officially out now? Great, okay, back to playing.

And the expectations that first time were much, much lower. D3 disappointed so many people in its lack of true advancement from D2, its weird veering into WoW territory on too many levels, that even as crude as PoE was in 2012-13, it was a no-brainer compared to D3's bedshitting. But compared to the level of polish DIV is offering, PoE does not present itself as a viable alternative.

If you look at all the things that drove gamers away from D3 and towards PoE, you'll see that almost none of them are a factor with DIV. RMAH? Nope. Grotesque WoW-influenced aesthetics? Nope. Limited scope (i.e. linear ARPG structure)? Nope. Out of touch, morally compromised devs? Nope (at least not yet). Floaty animations? Big nope.

Conversely, the things that people quit PoE over are only getting worse. The game is too complicated. The league gimmicks are increasingly gimmicky. The time demand is significant. The mtxes are overpriced. Accessibility is non-existent. Trade is a nightmare. The game expects you to trade and punishes you for choosing not to. The UI is fucking paleo. Its F2P nature means bots are rampant: an unwinnable fight. It's owned by a Chinese megacorp, which likely influences design decisions behind the scenes. Build viability somehow contracts even as build options seem to expand.

These are all things that could drive a gamer back into Sanctuary, especially a Sanctuary that is expressing itself as an entire living world of macroscopic ruin and microscopic atrocity, a far more logical progression from the events of D1 and D2 than the shallow, meaningless faux-Miltonian bullshit of D3. That is a Sanctuary I want to know more about. That is a Sanctuary I want to explore and experience.

Now a good old Error 37 scenario coupled with Battle Pass backlash could tank DIV. That's very true. But it's not as though PoE doesn't have a battle pass of its own (as do most live games now, both f2p and premium). Gamers don't see a battle pass as some new abomination a la SW Battlefront 2's loot crates. The BP is, like or not, the most popular way to get post-release financial support now. And for an invested gamer, it can be an easily-justified investment.

I would be very surprised if Blizzard don't correctly estimate how many users they'll have at launch. I would also be very surprised if they aren't down for at least a day. First day and all that.

But this is another advantage of being triple A vs f2p: Blizzard can see exactly how many people have preordered and use that early access as a testing ground. There is no way GGG were ready for the huge influx of players in the early days. Oh, I'm sure Kripp's closed beta weekend engagements prompting beta key sales spikes gave them a clue, but they were also genuinely amazed when more than a handful of Diamond Supporter packs sold. They weren't ready for that either. Took them years to fulfil a Closed Beta obligation -- turns out creating 50+ unique items in conjunction with whales from all walks of life and design philosophies is quite intensive, whofuckinknew?

No one expected PoE to feel complete, at any point. That is its greatest strength: its constant image of growth, of evolution. But everyone IS expecting DIV to feel complete *on release*. They expect to put down their cash and get exactly what they paid for. That is its greatest strength and right now, it's a much more attractive one. The potential for growth and evolution loses its lustre after a while -- are we there yet? At which point does potential go from a selling point to a wasted opportunity? A five year old doing university-level physics is a wonder; a grown up doing the same, not so much...

I don't think we'll see a change in the proposed DIV financial model. People are right to be wary of this given the DI fiasco, but that game was always going to be p2w. Mobile, aimed at China, half-made by NetEase, f2p. Perfect storm. DIV is not: it's a premium priced product with cosmetic extras, likely relying on battle pass sales for future development. This is a sound model that should be a win/win: gamers won't feel cheated, and devs get the support they need to keep going. I think an eleventh hour pivot in financial model from triple A+cosmetic premium mtxes to some sort of p2w structure would be far too stupid a move, even for Blizzard at their dumbest.

One last thing can tank DIV, and I think this is the biggest threat: development crunch due to an obviously rushed release date. We know what they've promised and it's incredible. We have no proof they can deliver it in time. We don't really know how far along they are outside of a few carefully deployed betas. There is a very real chance they'll either deploy something way below target (hi Anthem, hi CP2077, hi No Man's Sky) or be forced to delay. Either would be catastrophic. Either are very probably GGG's dream scenario right now. Hell, maybe GGG know something we don't. It's a small, small world, ARPG development...

But for the most part, and assuming they're not in direct competition, I think the next gen ARPG stars are aligning for DIV, while PoE as the last D2-style ARPG seems to be relying on a Hail Mary in the form of 'PoE 2'. And not a Hail Mary 'vs' DIV, but a Hail Mary for the state of the game in and of itself. We've always said only PoE can kill PoE, but how often do we not say only PoE '2' can save it? And that's assuming it needs saving. Many here would disagree, but eh, many here have something of a bias too.

DIV doesn't need saving. It just needs to be much better than D3 and justifiably priced as a living world ARPG/MMO hybrid. The former is a given; the latter will be the deciding factor.

Off topic but not really: I'm much, much more curious to see how DIV is going to affect not the players of PoE but of Guild Wars 2 -- it has a LOT more in common with that game than any other, ARPG or otherwise. Zoom GW2 out far enough and it often feels like an ARPG/MMO hybrid already. I'm constantly on the verge of going back; the shit I went through to get that stupid little dragon...

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kekoyaso написал:

everyone talking about itemization but poe itemization same state right now
hp , int str agi , resist
+ plus skills to spells

not much diversity for builds all same

We must be playing different games then:
- Critical strikes stats
- Accuracy
- Casting speed
- Increased damage
- Damage multipliers
- + to number of charges
- Spell suppression
- Ailment immunity
- Enchants
- Different influences
- Eldritch implicits
- Tons of build enabling uniques
- You can pretty much upgrade your rare gear pieces 'infinitely'

While Diablo 3 is based on boring sets.

I agree about the current state of the build diversity, but the thing is that PoE has potential for diversity due to its depth while Diablo 3 has no potential, because it lacks depth. It's just that GGG keeps nerfing player power and buffing content - thus we get fewer viable builds that can deal with the content effectively.

everything will work out fine!

i will play d4
i will enjoy it
i will then stop

My biggest problem with PoE is its indie aspect, even with years of development. It's poorly optimized, unfinished in many ways, it feels like the team lacks care, not just for the game, but around, on their website/forum.

If PoE 2 doesn't fix these basic problems with its engine, graphics, optimization and other details that just annoy and drive gamers away, I'll consider it the end, if they didn't fix it in PoE2, they never will.