poe is still the most p2w game ive ever played

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MrWonderful99 написал:

That GGG has in the International version not bowed to having real PTW stuff (like power leveling etc.) is really pretty special. This is a crazy flawed view of things by the OP.

..except for stash tabs. you know, the one thing that more or less everyone in this thread had to buy to actually go anywhere in this game

youre making it sound like power leveling is worse than the poe stash tabs when in reality the way stash tabs work in this game is one of if not the most p2w element among any of these games

you can buy power leveling in genshin/lost ark, the only thing you save is time. stash tabs is something you physically cannot obtain no matter how much you play the game f2p. because of this and how much of an impact stash tabs have on the game, stash tabs single handedly overrides any of the p2w elements in these other games

Poe is not p2w.

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yamface написал:

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MrWonderful99 написал:

That GGG has in the International version not bowed to having real PTW stuff (like power leveling etc.) is really pretty special. This is a crazy flawed view of things by the OP.

..except for stash tabs. you know, the one thing that more or less everyone in this thread had to buy to actually go anywhere in this game

youre making it sound like power leveling is worse than the poe stash tabs when in reality the way stash tabs work in this game is one of if not the most p2w element among any of these games

you can buy power leveling in genshin/lost ark, the only thing you save is time. stash tabs is something you physically cannot obtain no matter how much you play the game f2p. because of this and how much of an impact stash tabs have on the game, stash tabs single handedly overrides any of the p2w elements in these other games

You mean the thing you buy once and never again? The things that cost no more than a AAA game, and don't provide any value once you have enough of them? Those stash tabs?

The major difference is that there is a point where buying stash tabs does nothing to help you win. Once you have them, you're set. I seem to recall doing this check a few years ago and the cost was like 50ish dollars to be good to go.

It's not like you can keep buying more and continue to gain power/access. There is diminishing returns, and very quickly means nothing to buy more. I could buy a tab right now. It would do absolutely nothing for me in terms of balance or power for me. It wouldn't even be used.

The diminishing returns is an important thing to note. P2W features tend to be fleeting in power and available to buy again to renew that power. Stash tabs are not fleeting in power and don't provide value after a certain amount are bought. You spend enough to be equal to a normal game cost, and you're set until the servers get turned off. Free expansions. Free patches. Free leagues every three months. Calling them P2W feels like a stretch.

The game certainly isn't F2P anymore since easier trading is attached to premium tabs, but not being F2P does not make it P2W.

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Nubatron написал:

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yamface написал:

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MrWonderful99 написал:

That GGG has in the International version not bowed to having real PTW stuff (like power leveling etc.) is really pretty special. This is a crazy flawed view of things by the OP.

..except for stash tabs. you know, the one thing that more or less everyone in this thread had to buy to actually go anywhere in this game

youre making it sound like power leveling is worse than the poe stash tabs when in reality the way stash tabs work in this game is one of if not the most p2w element among any of these games

you can buy power leveling in genshin/lost ark, the only thing you save is time. stash tabs is something you physically cannot obtain no matter how much you play the game f2p. because of this and how much of an impact stash tabs have on the game, stash tabs single handedly overrides any of the p2w elements in these other games

You mean the thing you buy once and never again? The things that cost no more than a AAA game, and don't provide any value once you have enough of them? Those stash tabs?

The major difference is that there is a point where buying stash tabs does nothing to help you win. Once you have them, you're set. I seem to recall doing this check a few years ago and the cost was like 50ish dollars to be good to go.

It's not like you can keep buying more and continue to gain power/access. There is diminishing returns, and very quickly means nothing to buy more. I could buy a tab right now. It would do absolutely nothing for me in terms of balance or power for me. It wouldn't even be used.

The diminishing returns is an important thing to note. P2W features tend to be fleeting in power and available to buy again to renew that power. Stash tabs are not fleeting in power and don't provide value after a certain amount are bought. You spend enough to be equal to a normal game cost, and you're set until the servers get turned off. Free expansions. Free patches. Free leagues every three months. Calling them P2W feels like a stretch.

The game certainly isn't F2P anymore since easier trading is attached to premium tabs, but not being F2P does not make it P2W.

so if i logged into a random mobile game and bought a 1 time potion that permanently doubled my characters power, you dont think thats p2w? i mean by your definition, it wouldnt be.

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yamface написал:

so if i logged into a random mobile game and bought a 1 time potion that permanently doubled my characters power, you dont think thats p2w? i mean by your definition, it wouldnt be.

I can see your stuck on the P2W vs. F2P dynamic and not realizing there is a perfectly reasonable middle ground between those two things which is a dying breed.

My point, which you're either ignoring or being obtuse about, is that there are games where you pay once and you're done. POE is closer to that model in spite of trying to keep the F2P moniker. POE is approximately the equivalent of a AAA game in terms of cost since stash tabs are optional, but not in a reasonable sense. But if you spend $50, you're done. That's it. The same as just buying a game like Diablo.

The added bonus here is that you can play the whole game without ever spending a dime. Mule accounts are possible without cost. I would consider that a very extensive free trial to play the whole game. Quite possibly one of the most open and available free trials I've ever seen. If you like the game, buy some tabs (~$50), and you own the full version.

They don't market it that way, but in practical terms, that is what it is. Them calling it F2P is a misnomer. You calling P2W is also a misnomer. I hope you can appreciate the irony. I'm enjoying it.

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Nubatron написал:

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yamface написал:

so if i logged into a random mobile game and bought a 1 time potion that permanently doubled my characters power, you dont think thats p2w? i mean by your definition, it wouldnt be.

I can see your stuck on the P2W vs. F2P dynamic and not realizing there is a perfectly reasonable middle ground between those two things which is a dying breed.

My point, which you're either ignoring or being obtuse about, is that there are games where you pay once and you're done. POE is closer to that model in spite of trying to keep the F2P moniker. POE is approximately the equivalent of a AAA game in terms of cost since stash tabs are optional, but not in a reasonable sense. But if you spend $50, you're done. That's it. The same as just buying a game like Diablo.

The added bonus here is that you can play the whole game without ever spending a dime. Mule accounts are possible without cost. I would consider that a very extensive free trial to play the whole game. Quite possibly one of the most open and available free trials I've ever seen. If you like the game, buy some tabs (~$50), and you own the full version.

They don't market it that way, but in practical terms, that is what it is. Them calling it F2P is a misnomer. You calling P2W is also a misnomer. I hope you can appreciate the irony. I'm enjoying it.

well for starters, you dont seem to be aware that the way ggg markets their game in this way was intentional. by you saying its a misnomer, its almost like you think you solved the problem with this, but... this is just basic modern game marketing.

moreover, having a ceiling to what money can do is irrelevant. there is a ceiling in lost ark. there is a ceiling in genshin. and im not talking about buying literally everything that is possible to buy. theres mechanics that stopgap what money can do in all of these games. in poe buying 100 stash tabs has a great diminished return from someone that has 10.. but then again in a game like genshin it doesnt matter if you spend a million dollars or 0, you wont get a character unless the banner is out on rotation, and that happens once every 1-2 years. 6 months if the character is really popular. a f2p player has more than enough time to farm currency to get the same character in that time.

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yamface написал:

well for starters, you dont seem to be aware that the way ggg markets their game in this way was intentional. by you saying its a misnomer, its almost like you think you solved the problem with this, but... this is just basic modern game marketing.

moreover, having a ceiling to what money can do is irrelevant. there is a ceiling in lost ark. there is a ceiling in genshin. and im not talking about buying literally everything that is possible to buy. theres mechanics that stopgap what money can do in all of these games. in poe buying 100 stash tabs has a great diminished return from someone that has 10.. but then again in a game like genshin it doesnt matter if you spend a million dollars or 0, you wont get a character unless the banner is out on rotation, and that happens once every 1-2 years. 6 months if the character is really popular. a f2p player has more than enough time to farm currency to get the same character in that time.

P2W games don't tend to have a ceiling of how many times you can buy and get benefit from a P2W element. They give you xp/power boosts. They let you buy levels/fully leveled characters. And they offer these types of rewards in perpetuity.

If POE kept adding new things that required you to buy things, then I would change my stance on the matter.

Their marketing is terrible at best. Them calling the game F2P was somewhat true early on. 4 stash tabs at the onset of the game was reasonable. The last decade has changed that point, but they kept the moniker for better or worse. They also did not update the system requirements for the game either; so I suspect there is just no appetite to revisit those things that were decided over a decade ago. I don't know and don't really care.

They played with fire when they were adding new currencies/fragments/whatever every league with a new stash tab to make it easier to stash. That was close to what I was talking about adding new things that require buying for ease. But they've stopped that practice.

I stand by my point that the upper ceiling of what you need to buy is near a AAA game. There isn't anything else like that in the game like temporary power boosts. That's an important distinction. As for Lost Ark, I don't really care about that game. Maybe it's F2P. Maybe it's P2W. Maybe neither. It's not relevant to my point. Your point suggested POE is P2W. That's the part I take exception to and that's the part I was responding to.

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yamface написал:

before people tell me ive never played a real p2w game before: i played both lost ark and genshin.

Yep, that's bait.

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yamface написал:

well for starters, you dont seem to be aware that the way ggg markets their game in this way was intentional. by you saying its a misnomer, its almost like you think you solved the problem with this, but... this is just basic modern game marketing.

The funniest part is that GGG isn't even 'pushing' to sell the stash tabs which is the main topic of this post. What they are constantly pushing is cosmetics, supporter packs, new shiny effects which I boldly assume are their main source of income, but which are completely optional and don't give you any additional gameplay benefits.

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yamface написал:

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MrWonderful99 написал:

That GGG has in the International version not bowed to having real PTW stuff (like power leveling etc.) is really pretty special. This is a crazy flawed view of things by the OP.

..except for stash tabs. you know, the one thing that more or less everyone in this thread had to buy to actually go anywhere in this game

Except you don't. Before I could afford to get a few tabs, I made alt accounts and stored extra stuff on those toons. You don't "need" the extra tabs. It's a convenience.

And in case you were wondering, there is a cap on the amount of accounts that you can have from one IP address. I should know, I hit it. And I STILL didn't fill up each and every tab that those alt accounts had.

POE is NOT P2W.