It's time for GGG to take back reigns of trade for the sake of the game

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Nubatron написал:
You can spout platitudes about how you want the game to be and you won't find many people disagreeing. The issue is that so many people in this thread seem to think it's easy and even possible to eradicate this stuff. It's not. And furthermore, going too hard into trying to eradicate it could cause more harm than good.

If you won't bother trying to help in finding a solution, the least you could do is stop the baseless rhetoric that trying is too hard and shouldn't be attempted.

They are being provided with proof in a silver platter, the least they could do is use it.
Последняя редакция: Z3RoNightMare#7140. Время: 23 февр. 2023 г., 21:33:38
There's still no proof of the owner/leaders of TFT RMTing. A person who gave them an item for service (for a slice of the mirror fees) was an RMTer known to TFT. Proof that TFT is unethical, maybe, but they're just providing a service for a fee.

The ball's in GGG's court. There are now 3 public accounts in this whole drama that either admitted directly to RMTing a ton or were proven to be RMTers. Those accounts and all accounts that traded them real money for items or vice versa need to be banned. If GGG does nothing then the conspiracy is confirmed.
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DiabloImmoral написал:
There's still no proof of the owner/leaders of TFT RMTing


You are intentionally avoiding looking then as the evidence is as clear as you can get. The same name, the same accounts, the same items for mirror service, the charges, the offers, the amount of website currency.

I mean what exactly do you want? Just swing by reddit and see for yourself. I cant be specific here due to forum CoC, but this is blown wide open at this point.

Let's see if GGG takes action, and if so then you will have a confirmation.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
Последняя редакция: DarthSki44#6905. Время: 23 февр. 2023 г., 22:23:51
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DarthSki44 написал:
I mean what exactly do you want?

He wants his account to not be investigated for RMT'ing.

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Nubatron написал:
You can spout platitudes about how you want the game to be and you won't find many people disagreeing. The issue is that so many people in this thread seem to think it's easy and even possible to eradicate this stuff. It's not. And furthermore, going too hard into trying to eradicate it could cause more harm than good. That's been my point multiple times now.

We can pretend it's easy if it makes everyone happy. But it's not.


I take it you have first hand experience with botting on a massive scale? I mean I am up for a debate, but I doubt you hold a candle to my experience. If you don't believe me, google "Phelon HonorBuddy". I told you exactly how it works, and it actually worked here in PoE when Honorbuddy made ExileBuddy for PoE. You are delusional to think it is hard. Botting/RMT isn't hard to stop, it just requires money to staff the anti RMT/Bot team. If I had a budget of 1M per year I could all but eradicate RMT/Botting from PoE. I would make it so unprofitable, people would move to other games or shut down their bots, just like Exilebuddy did.

Lets play your angle, about more harm than good with false positives. People might get mad, but it is never a massive swath of people who get caught in the fight. When your customers see you are trying to fight bots, they will accept that mistakes happen. You apologize, give them a bit of coinage to spend in the store, and unban their accounts with manual review. It usually works out just fine, and everyone will back you up even if you make a mistake. There is no losing to proactively fighting bots and RMT.You get so much good will from your customer base that it will far out weigh any accidental short term false positives.
Последняя редакция: Nulledout#3809. Время: 24 февр. 2023 г., 01:07:35
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Reinhart написал:


Certain groups get huge headstarts if they RMT at the beginning of a league, making the entire concept of a fair clean economy an illusion. It becomes a question of optimization, how much real money do I put into ingame currency to gain as much ingame currency as possible to resell for real money again.



"Fair and clean economy is an illusion, Exile." "This economy is an illusion, exile!"
Последняя редакция: awesome999#2945. Время: 24 февр. 2023 г., 03:13:15
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Nulledout написал:
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DarthSki44 написал:
I mean what exactly do you want?

He wants his account to not be investigated for RMT'ing.

Can you pm who you are talking about. Thanks.
Heart of Purity

Awarded 'Silverblade' to Talent Competition Winner 2020.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDFO4E5OKSE
POE 2 is designed primarily for console.
Последняя редакция: Reinhart#6743. Время: 24 февр. 2023 г., 02:26:38
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Nulledout написал:
You are delusional to think it is hard.


I don't doubt your massive experience, dude. I just find it hard to believe that a "billion dollar a year industry" has sprung and blossomed based on developers being cheap, ignorant and/or lazy - and that the whole industry could've "easily" been avoided if they've only had your experience.

But hey, we do agree that they could and should probably do more than they are currently doing.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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Nulledout написал:
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DarthSki44 написал:
I mean what exactly do you want?

He wants his account to not be investigated for RMT'ing.

"
Nubatron написал:
You can spout platitudes about how you want the game to be and you won't find many people disagreeing. The issue is that so many people in this thread seem to think it's easy and even possible to eradicate this stuff. It's not. And furthermore, going too hard into trying to eradicate it could cause more harm than good. That's been my point multiple times now.

We can pretend it's easy if it makes everyone happy. But it's not.


I take it you have first hand experience with botting on a massive scale? I mean I am up for a debate, but I doubt you hold a candle to my experience. If you don't believe me, google "Phelon HonorBuddy". I told you exactly how it works, and it actually worked here in PoE when Honorbuddy made ExileBuddy for PoE. You are delusional to think it is hard. Botting/RMT isn't hard to stop, it just requires money to staff the anti RMT/Bot team. If I had a budget of 1M per year I could all but eradicate RMT/Botting from PoE. I would make it so unprofitable, people would move to other games or shut down their bots, just like Exilebuddy did.

Lets play your angle, about more harm than good with false positives. People might get mad, but it is never a massive swath of people who get caught in the fight. When your customers see you are trying to fight bots, they will accept that mistakes happen. You apologize, give them a bit of coinage to spend in the store, and unban their accounts with manual review. It usually works out just fine, and everyone will back you up even if you make a mistake. There is no losing to proactively fighting bots and RMT.You get so much good will from your customer base that it will far out weigh any accidental short term false positives.


I don't have any experience with botting personally. What's the point? Gaming is a hobby to have fun. Why would I run a bot to do that? (Rhetorical)

I do have a friend who bots heavily in D2 and D3 still to this day very heavily. He has been caught in D2 but not enough to make him stop. He made quite a bit of money but not even close to the amount of money he makes at his job. I honestly think he does it to see what he can get away with.

The question isn't whether you get caught with botting. Eventually you will. The question is whether you get caught enough to no longer make it worth it, which likely means getting caught within hours of creation since accounts are free in POE. Being caught is absolutely built into their thought process.

I don't love that he does it, but to each their own. Either way, he's not found much resistance to it because it is so easy to get away with unfortunately.
Thanks for all the fish!
Последняя редакция: Nubatron#4333. Время: 24 февр. 2023 г., 07:24:19
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Phrazz написал:
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Nulledout написал:
You are delusional to think it is hard.


I don't doubt your massive experience, dude. I just find it hard to believe that a "billion dollar a year industry" has sprung and blossomed based on developers being cheap, ignorant and/or lazy - and that the whole industry could've "easily" been avoided if they've only had your experience.

But hey, we do agree that they could and should probably do more than they are currently doing.


The reason it grew so much is because game developers figured out that gamers will still spend money on their game even though botting and hacking are rampant. Any Activision product is a prime example, heck even PoE is a prime example. Companies don't actively do anything about botting until they absolutely have to, and then it is some token "ban wave" just to shut up the masses. The whole "we only ban in waves", is total BS. They do it that way so they can collect revenue off game accounts for long periods of time with out the players complaining that they are not dong anything.
Последняя редакция: Nulledout#3809. Время: 24 февр. 2023 г., 09:10:53
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Nubatron написал:
What's the point?


Money, plain and simple. Back in WoWs heyday I was making 30k+ a month. The problem with botting a game, is that you can never play it for fun anymore. The overall problem with botting is that you now see all games as money and not fun. It took a long time to get out of that mindset. I now make so much money that the money isn't worth the time investment. So I am back to using gaming as my out instead of my main source of income.

Botting is a great hobby, and it is what got me into software engineering. I don't write bots anymore, but I still have pet projects like an image recognition software I am currently working on. But for most people, botting is not sustainable in a well monitored environment unless you are part of a private project that is not easily found by developers.
Последняя редакция: Nulledout#3809. Время: 24 февр. 2023 г., 09:13:10

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