New Western Boss Zero Drop Rate

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Charan написал:

One monster of out so many doesn't drop loot and this Deluge of Tears is the result?

The sense of unwarranted entitlement is crushing. Seriously crushing.

Go run another boss. ANY other boss.

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I think this sets a very unpleasant precedent.
every monster you kill in an ARPG/MMO/whatever should have some chance to drop some kind of loot.
and bosses/uniques should drop extra-quality/extra-quantity loot when killed.

you can get no loot only if you did not kill the boss, as in Lososthefish's example with Piety in the Crematorium. but in this case you'll need to fight the same boss or a more powerful version later (again, Piety) to get the loot you deserve.
this despite the fact, some games choose to reward you for completing a "phase" of a boss-fight as well as the whole fight.

and GGG's reasoning behind this, claiming the Passive Point is enough? that would make sense only if there were no other bosses who grant both loot and a Point. like Depth Dweller.

I will not rage about this, because GGG are Beta-testing a new concept and waiting for player feedback - but I do think that feedback should make it clear, that the Path Of Exile community will not accept such a concept.
because a Pandora's box of terrible, frustrating, unrewarding design would be opened if we do.
there are too many vastly under-rewarding mechanics in the game already.

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the problem I (and I guess the OP) have with this isn't "oh noes! I killed this boss and got no loot!". it's the whole concept of a mob designed to drop no loot.
in a game of this sort, every mob should have some chance to drop something. and a boss usually has a greater chance to drop something better.

you can't violate this extremely basic concept, and continue to call your game an ARPG.
that's how bad this change really is.

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Undon3 написал:

Since farming bosses is so horribly wrong (lol), why not make them really, I mean REALLY challenging? You know, the type of boss that takes you a week to learn how to defeat? With complex mechanics?

And since it would be clear a big amount of effort and player skill is needed to defeat the boss, how about giving it nice drops, to compensate the player?

And since it's clear that everybody, good or bad at PoE, would be dying at least for a few days trying to defeat these true bosses, how about dealing with that annoying XP penalty? As for HC... give them pussy bosses, so they can stay alive, who cares...

Then nobody would care any more if "OMG, they will farm bosses, thiz iz bad stuffz, we need to make sure it doesn't happen - or they might get good gear too fast! The audacity!!!"

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Obsidus написал:

Yeah, I personally don't really understand, but also don't care, if one boss doesn't drop loot. The ONLY concern I have is the precedent it sets.

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Lteegtimtobfuuesr написал:

They could. In theory. In practice, it might be in their business benefit to be more inclusive than exclusive. The trick is to do this in a way that's satisfies the casuals without diluting the experience of the HC folks.

I think they already have that vehicle in place, myself. Leagues.

It's why I've thought they should cave on their loot system. Those who like playing FFA aren't actually hurt if players who otherwise would quit the game play a mode that FFA players don't like.

I recall someone saying GGG said that they would never implement a carebear league with an easy difficulty. I can actually see arguments both in favor and against that. The main business problem with a carebear league is that the players get to the end rather rapidly, and run out of stuff to do. This is probably why map drop rate is what it is, also.

But if you could somehow do a design where you capture players who wouldn't play the game all the way through otherwise; if you could capture them into this league, you'd have a winning business formula.

I'm not quite sure how to do it.

Just sayin'.

One size doesn't have to fit all.

--C

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deteego написал:

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Undon3 написал:

Since farming bosses is so horribly wrong (lol), why not make them really, I mean REALLY challenging? You know, the type of boss that takes you a week to learn how to defeat? With complex mechanics?

And since it would be clear a big amount of effort and player skill is needed to defeat the boss, how about giving it nice drops, to compensate the player?

And since it's clear that everybody, good or bad at PoE, would be dying at least for a few days trying to defeat these true bosses, how about dealing with that annoying XP penalty? As for HC... give them pussy bosses, so they can stay alive, who cares...

Then nobody would care any more if "OMG, they will farm bosses, thiz iz bad stuffz, we need to make sure it doesn't happen - or they might get good gear too fast! The audacity!!!"

Not going to happen in this kind of game due to the death penalty and the way its designed