TRADE is such a detriment to POE 2 being fun

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dupie#7991 написал:

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kumogakure#7381 написал:

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dupie#7991 написал:

Honestly, SSF isn't as bad nowadays because the time you waste engaging and trying to trade for hours/days on end you could be getting more loot to craft your own.

I've been playing self-imposed SSF since early access began. Restarted on a clean slate after the buff to currency drop rates just to get actual feel of the new balance.

SSF in POE2's current state is horrible. The currencies aren't dropping, the few Exalted Orbs I get are mostly wasted because the RNG give me useless stats. Even the bases aren't dropping when I'm looking at level 20 or even level 5 items in Act 3.

Just roughly, I'd say I am going to need at least 4-5 times more of the Exalted Orbs and at least 2-3 times more Regal Orb/Shards to make SSF feel enjoyable. As it stands I'm not even getting to craft.

Yep, sadly almost all of my upgrades have been from checking every single vendor at level up in the hopes for a minor upgrade.

Thats not going to work when all weapon types are in. You will be lucky to have a single relevant weapon at the vendor, much less a good one.

Making a game mechanic not fun because the alternative is just that terrible isn't synonymous with good mechanics. It is synonymous with stubborn excuses for keeping everything horrible for whatever inane reason it is this year.

Is it bandwidth? Is it vision? Or is it testing out a system asked for for years to gather "data" and claim it isn't working through some esoteric variable? Who even knows now.

For now I guess I'll keep looking for a mid all res ring in listings and being ignored. I'm sure that's going to make me use crafting currency I don't have to slam a base item I also don't have to get mods I need as a minimum.

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crazyfingers619#3901 написал:

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yanos224#5987 написал:

I would agree that - just dont trade dummy - is not really a valid response to this
Last Epoch can have a system that gives you options to target farm better if you resign from trade im sure POE2 could have something similar as well.
I would honestly gladly play SSF if i at least got some more crafting currency to have a chance at similar levels of gear progress as in normal league.

It's a VERY complex topic, because trade absolutely fuels people buying more stash tabs and other revenue streams. But the fact is, it absolutely does kill the fun of grinding for the majority of players. It's like in real life when you're busting your ass making minimum wage and you just know someone else out there is in some cush office job goofing around making more money.

Games should be about having fun and enjoying the fruits of your kills! Not about stressing about the loot you're missing out on from not engaging in some boring ass trade system.

A lot of people will learn about trade, they will see other people engaging in it, and they will stop playing the game when they see other people who enjoy this tired exercise are becoming FAR more powerful because they don't mind haggling and engaging in trade to get those key upgrades.

People play games TO GET AWAY FROM PEOPLE. To play in a world with rules, and mechanics that are fair and promote playing a game while enjoying the rewards of your accomplishments.

It is so much less fulfilling to see some item in a chat window, dealing with the UI, completing the transaction, and using some item someone else found.

I know that this is a key element of the design of POE 1. That's why I'm making this post. The game would be so much more fun if it offered positives to not trading, if it encouraged players to be able to play on their own and kill monsters and not feel as if they are gimped for not engaging with trade systems that are so inherently unfun to so many people in so many ways.

I just want to kill monsters and get good loot without having to feel people sitting in a trade window are ruining the balance of the game.

+1. As one of the introverted who plays videogames specifically because it gives me a break from other people and their bullshit, I agree completely. I understand that some people love multiplayer, and love trade, and I don't want trade to be taken away from them, but people who don't love those things should be able to just enjoy the core ARPG gameplay loop without also having to deal with the heavy progression penalty of playing a trade-balanced game without trading.

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Cocofang#3395 написал:

If PoE2 had a system in place that lets me increase and manipulate drop rates in order to compensate for not being able to trade, I would play that. Something like Last Epoch has.

Preferably that still allows for trade within your guild, assuming they are also playing that mode.

I don't think it needs to be as elaborate as LE's circle of fortune system, I do think but GGG could implement something relatively straightforwardly that achieves the dream of "bro SF" without necessarily breaking anything. Maybe instead of an SSF mode, just have each player start each league with an SSF status flag that gives better drop rarity when ON, and which flips to OFF when they start trading, and then add an Omen of Exchange which only drops for players that running content with other SSF players (hourly maybe) each of which allows them one trade without losing their SSF flag. Balance it properly, so that it's not better than trading but only roughly equal to, and then let people play in the way they find most fun.

I think LE nailed it with the crafting system and their trade-or-betterloot-system ^^

Other games could build on this, tweak it according to their flavor and push the genre forward. That would be nice. <3

I'd hate to think that the reason for not having a viable SSF mode or a non Korean Gotcha MMO garbage crafting system would be because the massive loss in sales for multiple premium quad stash tabs that you need for trading. But here we are.

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Dayemon6#3199 написал:

I'd hate to think that the reason for not having a viable SSF mode or a non Korean Gotcha MMO garbage crafting system would be because the massive loss in sales for multiple premium quad stash tabs that you need for trading. But here we are.

because it is a free to play game... We would not have all the amazing content for PoE 1 or this amazing sequel unless they had effective ways of monetizing. Tbh you don't need quad tabs for trading at all... If your shit sits in a tab that long it probably isn't worth what you think it is in the first place.
You need a couple of premium tabs for trading and that's it (quads are nice for dump tabs). If you don't like trading to begin with there is absolutely no need for quads... I usually just use a quad for dump, maybe more when i am too lazy to keep my stash clean. I would say the worst offenders are the other tabs for specific mechanics or currency. They save you SO much space and are probably the main reason quad tabs are more of a luxury over requirement.
I wouldn't say no to a more effective trading system but i don't know how that would look.

Wow I can't believe how many people think that trading gives someone an unfair advantage in a game. You're assuming that any trade will always involve someone ripping off the other person? Why? Why do you think that people are only out to take advantage of others? Is that the way you play? I'll remember to watch for your name if we ever have any dealings...

Particularly in PoE with its dozens of different currencies it can be helpful just to have someone trading one currency type for another. If they make a profit doing it then good for them, they're providing a service to the other players helping them exchange currencies they have extra of for currencies they are lacking. Why should they not receive anything for their service? What is so wrong about someone posting a trade offer? There is nobody forcing the other party to accept it...it's supposed to be mutually beneficial...that's the whole idea behind trade in the first place.

Secondly the items that you need for builds in PoE become more and more specific the further along you get. How is someone supposed to find that perfect unique item or the god rolls on that rare item they need? Spin the wheel and hope for the best from crafting? Why can't they just purchase someone else's old item that they no longer need anymore?

If trading is too stressful for you to handle there are very easy ways to get around it...PoE even has a mode specifically for people who don't want to trade ever. Without trading you may as well be playing a single-player game, and if that is what you want then why are you even playing an MMORPG? You're in the wrong genre.


The trading system in PoE2 is such garbage right now you don't need to worry about trade anyway. Nobody is going to waste their time with this stupid website thing that drags them out of the game to try to find an item, doubly so for players on consoles who have to try to use a controller to navigate the ordeal.

The original trade system in PoE was sufficient for the game and should be reinstated for PoE2.

The game is balanced around trade so to the people saying just go SSF is not reading the post and not engaging in good faith.

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masskillers#5403 написал:

The game is balanced around trade so to the people saying just go SSF is not reading the post and not engaging in good faith.

OFC they are not engaging in good faith. The trading site is the gateway for bots, chinese farming companies and PTW gameplay. It favors these people to the detriment of those that just want to be rewarded for gameplay and skill. The ingame advertising for real money website is getting worse by the day. People that support the trading website are not interested in discussing in good faith

I wont comment on balance because I think thats the smallest issue with trade. Compared to how easily abused the trade site is, and how archaic the system of leaving the game to engage in game are more egregious.

In my opinion theres needs to be a "buy now" function to stop price fixers, and improve the experience of buyers.
There is absolutely nothing i hate more in poe1 or poe2 than messaging 40 people and getting ignored (on high price sales, i'm not talking about 1 ex common crap)
I had to message 107 different listings before getting a response to buy HoWa for 7 divine.

I can admit "buy now" could cause friction, if you list something too low, theres no backing out of the mistake.

But even more important than price fixing and false listing..

Leaving the game should never be the most optimal way to play the game.

An external tool that we need to leave the game client to use is extremely outdated and abuseable.
I dont mind checking a wiki, but spamming alt-tab between trade site and game for 20-30 minutes is way too much for basic progression.