The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

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BK2710#6123 написал:

I don't care for the race to 100, meaningless to me, and yet I am forced to participate?
No defense to not make it opt in, the game has a chance to have more than a small niche playerbase so GGG has to respond now that Tencent owns them and majority of the old guard is gone profit has to rain in.


Also Jonathan really did not give any argument as to why it matters, only "build defensively", which you need anyway as to not die. The race isn't meaningful for at least 97% of the players and as was said many times, reward deathless runs with greater loot/xp and unique rewards you cannot get without dying and stop punishing a casual playerbase otherwise this will once more turn into bot of exile. This is an example of someone assuming that everyone cares for what he cares for but he has to consider other audiences.

Honestly regardless of changes, if you race to 100 in SC you didn't really achieve anything. Only HC 100 matters.

I don't get this argument that it forces you to stop and think about your build.

I literally do that in every single game where I die more than a few times in a short period of time. Like 30 minutes to an hour. Okay, 3 deaths. Shop for some potions, lets upgrade this piece of gear and that piece of gear. Okay, lets go get some herbs. Oh, I found a new weapon. Okay, what's my plan for the next few levels, where do I put my skill points, what do I need?

That is literally how games are meant to be played. Dying is the punishment. You just wasted 5-10 minutes. Die three times. Look at your character. That's what people do.

Why do they think it's different in PoE?

It comes from a fallacious position and once you realize it it makes perfect sense.
The only ones who argue people would suicide to 100 are the same ones who care for the race to 100 (but are just posers because the actual people who care play hcssf to 100, SC 100 is a joke always was since its sold as boosts) so they assume that is what everyone would do. They are fundamentally incapable of understanding what a normal player wants in a rpg because they view it through that narrow lense of a competition no one perceives to exist.

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MEITTI#3999 написал:

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

The keyword you're missing in your post is SOME. Most, do leave.

PoE 1 breaks player number records every new League, PoE 2 beta was their most successful launch ever. So I'm sorry but you're simply lying right now.

Yes, because the game getting a few more players each league means it has good player retention right?

Dishonest again.

Go look at PoE 1 achievements. Almost 85-90% of players never get out of the acts.

These are AUTOMATICALLY tracked, and IN the story. You HAVE to do them to progress.



Some of these people do come back to play the acts. That's a given. But when what, 85% of your playerbase is gone before they even reach Map levels. You've got something wrong with your game. Super low player retention. Mapping levels anm probably only interests 5% of the players that ever touch this game. Maybe a bit more.

Maybe you could remind me when the XP loss on death penalty kicks in, in PoE 1?

Oh jeez someone posting steam numbers.


SMH the posters head

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Battousai21#8595 написал:

https://youtu.be/pj8FxWMf4V4?t=688

Finally, someone linked an interview from Jonathan as to why the XP penalty exists.

First of all, it makes sense to add that to the challenge of race to 100.

But a few points about this:

- Grinding XP in POE 2 is long and tedious as it is without XP penalty.

- How many cares about the race to 100? These are hardcore gamers who dedicate their life to the game. I wouldn't even say it'll go more than 5% of the current POE 2 player base. People do want to get to 100, but most wanted it at their own pace.

- This is an ARPG which the main mechanic is to grind for gears, not to race.

- In a race, when you stumble and fall down, you don't get knocked back a few meters back. The punishment of losing juiced up maps/nodes/fragments is enough punishment for people to lose an edge for that race.

I'm a bit optimistic about how Jonathan answered the point about XP penalty as it seems to be something on their list to think about.

My apologies if this is another one of those "XP penalty" threads, but I think it's best to have the discussion with the thought of the original developer's idea on why it is there in the first place.

Same way people found glitches and cheats to dupe items and crash servers , they do with XP grind. So that ''race'' bullshit with death xp penalty in 2025 is just a massive fail.

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

Go look at PoE 1 achievements.

Go look at any Steam achievements, on average only 30% of people who purchased a game actually finished it. You insist on lying.

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MEITTI#3999 написал:

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

Go look at PoE 1 achievements.

Go look at any Steam achievements, on average only 30% of a people who purchased a game actually finished it. You insist on lying.

PoE 1 is free mate. Which is why this is even more of an issue. People love free games, and if 90-95% of players have never touched anything more than maybe a T4 map. Well. That's NOT GOOD.

I linked the achievements. Go argue with yourself. Not putting up with your delusional dishonesty.

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

PoE 1 is free mate.

Worthless excuse. The same 70% player retention rate is the average on F2P games as well. I suggest you stop lying, its really not a good look for you.

It’s really a waste of breath to discuss this. They’re not even willing to remove xp penalty in the supposedly “easier” poe1. What makes you think they will remove it in poe2 that’s supposed to be harder.

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BK2710#6123 написал:

It comes from a fallacious position and once you realize it it makes perfect sense.
The only ones who argue people would suicide to 100 are the same ones who care for the race to 100 (but are just posers because the actual people who care play hcssf to 100, SC 100 is a joke always was since its sold as boosts) so they assume that is what everyone would do. They are fundamentally incapable of understanding what a normal player wants in a rpg because they view it through that narrow lense of a competition no one perceives to exist.

i hear what ur saying but i would push back against that slightly.


a game like poe is very much a knowledge game, the devs talk a lot about mastery behaviour, a lot of player thinking has maths behind it.

you have 2 weapons, one gives you more dps, you use that one right? thats game knowledge, its maths. thats a simple example.


a complex example, and ill just make this one up because its been so long since i cared to know what blasters in poe1 are doing, but in this fictional illustration running a T16 gorge map rolled for beyond with breach and abyss scarabs on a tornado hoi ranger using the double beyond bench craft while completely delirious is the most proven xp per hour strategy in the game.

running a different map with a different strat is the best profit per hour.




this is game knowledge. most players will not do these things, they will play what they find fun. but this is an extension of the same maths based calc that makes everyone use the better weapon they just found.

there will be a build meta and a significant minority of dedicated players will flock to the meta builds and farming strats. this is game knowledge, its mastery and the important thing to appreciate is that these metas are being dictated by the game itself.

the reason over performing skills that have become too meta get nerfed is because its their performance causing them to dominate the meta, it is the maths within the game itself dictating to players that this is the best build, and the devs have to be aware of that. its coming from their designs.





so what im saying is, if the mechanics of the game design dictates that mathematically the best way to get xp is to go full dps glass cannon and death zerg content then the game is actually forcing that as the meta. a significant set of players will play the numbers, they wont just play for the role fantasy or their favourite skill, they will treat the game like an actual serious game of maths and strats. the devs have to be aware of what the game is dictating is technically the 'best' way to play.


you cant just say well ES is technically way better than armour but people who want to play armour should just play armour anyway because the like armour builds. you have to balance the math of your game so that when people play the numbers the resulting behaviour is desirable. a lot of people will feel forced to do X instead of Y if the resulting rewards are significantly greater. that kind of thinking is quite widespread in the dedicated core playerbase of arpgs because at their heart its all about heres a load of passives/items/skills, now make 'good' choices to succeed.

I view the XP penalty as a gear/build check. If your dying enough that your not leveling... your gear and build needs work. I was "stuck" in 91 for a little bit. Was dying just enough that I couldn't break through to 92. I'd get halfway through 91, die 2-3 times. Get to 60% through, die ..get back to 60.. die... repeat.

But then I was finally able to craft a new weapon, craft a new chest. Moved some stuff around, changed a couple passives. Didnd't die again and pushed through to 92. And then went all the way through 92 to 93 with only 2 deaths.

Point being, if your dying enough to not be making progress. It's time to look at your gear and build. Spend some time farming some currency or crafting. Try out some different approaches, and make the break through.

This was really rewarding making that breakthrough and changes. Made my character better, and made me better at the game.

Wasn't just herp derp , i killed stuff, got level herp derp.