To veterans of PoE1. What made that endgame better?

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Jitter912#4278 написал:

SWEATY.
Dont get me wrong PoE2 is a better game potentially.
I dont kile the disco ball builds either ... but there are many issues
bound to having the marketplace as a consideration ...
Removing the players ability to be the creator of kick ass items just led to
stockpile cash during campaign ... finish spend = T15 you win ..

Being as critical as possible I mostly agree with the the conclusion however I'm rather struggling to understand how a game like PoE1 can ultimately be heavily respected when there's a lot of questionable events, "each to their own" I guess.

For me I can't see a reason to heavily dislike a gameplay aspect from PoE2 (heavy *, besides crafting!...Although the new economy they've put in that locks 1 of the 4 modifiers is pretty good), I even just recently did a map with the slow debuff and I thought "wow this is nuts I can't play like this....thought for a minute, ah I'll wear the slow immunity unique boots (which I think are an easy unique to acquire because I've had 2 pairs through campaign)".

So going on more, yes you do essentially need 2 major defensive structures to tackle the end game (armor/ES/Evasion), the maxing of resists though...from my experience its not overly necessary but I could certainly see someones point if they don't wish to play in a strict manner of always respecting threats as normally my instant hp recovery health pot is always normally topped up for those rare emergencies.
Investment into nodes, such as HP loss is taken as mana loss by a % helps mitigate damage reduction without the need of being maxed resists, stun % thresholds and the Crowd Control game in PoE2 in my opinion makes life very easy, if monsters are disabled your defenses are simply insurance.

For me personally, I can't stress enough how I think the players QoL would be improved if branching into other class skills were more accessible with less of an attribute cost, you could even lower the skills power based off the regular attribute requirement just so the user could use it.
This imo would create ideal gameplay where I feel people would organically focus hard on say a strong element or physical damage build for natural synergy of skills which would in turn naturally strengthen players ease of debuffing/cc'ing more enemies into submission with only rare/unique monsters being a potentially frustrating gameplay focus due to immunities and other buffs.

My conclusion is I think not just PoE1 but all the ARPG's of old focus on gear so heavily and the player obviously appreciates that for comfort but now with PoE2's modern gameplay there needs to be a different perspective.
I obviously know that's not translating very well to regular ARPG enjoyer's but I'm almost certain that alongside that "modern gameplay" if there was more commitment from GGG to help players branch into other class skills, create more synergies (do better with the unique gear pieces to promote this as an example) and somehow create more mobility and defensive skills (like we see with Warrior in hardcore, shield is a superb example of controlling your fate), I feel players will naturally warm to more to gameplay > gear aspect...
AND enjoy it well enough so they don't feel like they're instantly desperate to get to T15+ maps and be overly obsessed with maxing gear because I really feel for any potentially great game its a problem if the user feels like they need to rush for relevancy.

the way to improve endgame is to make it not the only part of the game people want to play.

it's like taking a lift to top of a mountain.. view is nice for a moment but there's no sense of accomplishment or true appreciation like having climbed that mountain to get there.

the ARPG outdated "skip campaign it's all wasted time unless I'm in a zone where shinies drop a lot" is broken old design doesn't work, kills player's sense of fun in a couple of weeks.

hardcore solves this problem.. rather than wait for league reset you will get reset by simply playing and engaging with increasingly difficult content. your character's power and ability matters with every step forward, can't be skipping content. now, loot is important wherever you are, you feel meaning with grinding in a level 40 area, not feeling like you need to get to level 70 area ASAP to find the best loot, because you would die if you went to level 70 area now..

how they can make softcore players feel the hardcore experience IDK. need to gatekeep progression behind difficulty, but they try that already and players say I hate this I want to skip it and go to maps.. so I'm not sure how to fix broken brain of these type players.

Well POE1 has had YEARS to build up content for it... that's what made it great.

I prefer POE2's gameplay to POE1, but no one can compete with the level of end-game content the first game has... given time it will though, people just gotta be patient like they did in the first game.

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MadSheo#0280 написал:

A lot of people are saying that endgame is boring. Streamers quit this "league" etc.

So, how was/is endgame in poe1? What makes it better and enjoyable in a different way? ...

PoE1 endgame has good, accessible, player agency in The Atlas and decent narrative progression. Though, the 'narrative' was much better with the Shaper and Elder mechanics and story.

PoE2 has a 'why am I doing any of this' problem.


PoE1's strength is the biggest variety of endgame gameplay activities in any ARPG... PoE2 can't compete there, yet.

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TrunktenUK#3407 написал:

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Biovital#3172 написал:

"Why does PoE2 even exist?"

The "number 1 PoE addict" you mean, doesn't like PoE2? What a surprise.

PoE2 exists because most people need an improvement to their favorite genres and its doing a fabulous job of adding skill expression and applying more action orientated combat that's in tune with the times.

I've never touched PoE1 properly, I have no desire too, I've been playing games since the NES days and Sim City 2000 on a 25mhz PC and standards and demands change, we've experienced some incredible life changing experiences.
To me, there was no reason to play PoE1 over League of Legends at the time, none, LoL offered the better immersion, quick gearing and challenge.
PoE2 does what POE1 doesn't, difficulty through mechanics and a solid defensive mindset is just as important as offense.

forgive me, but if you have played little poe 1 you can not say which is better, for me who am a veteran of poe 1, I say that poe 2 could be the best game of its kind, but at the moment it is one of the worst, and I will only add one thing, I am tired of these marketing tactics to get as many players as possible, if you want to make a different game from poe I appreciate it and I will try it, but do not call it poe2, and then not use any of the mechanics that made poe great (at least for me), call it by another name, from poe 1 in 2 I only see copied assets, as I answered, one of the biggest shortcomings of poe 2 compared to the first is the freedom given to the player, everything else can be fixed over time, but I repeat if they want a different product from poe 1, it would have been enough to call it by another name, I would have definitely tried it given the excellent work they have done but with different expectations

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judment#5299 написал:

forgive me, but if you have played little poe 1 you can not say which is better, for me who am a veteran of poe 1, I say that poe 2 could be the best game of its kind, but at the moment it is one of the worst, and I will only add one thing, I am tired of these marketing tactics to get as many players as possible, if you want to make a different game from poe I appreciate it and I will try it, but do not call it poe2, and then not use any of the mechanics that made poe great (at least for me), call it by another name, from poe 1 in 2 I only see copied assets, as I answered, one of the biggest shortcomings of poe 2 compared to the first is the freedom given to the player, everything else can be fixed over time, but I repeat if they want a different product from poe 1, it would have been enough to call it by another name, I would have definitely tried it given the excellent work they have done but with different expectations

POE2's early stages blow POE1's early stages out of the water, I'd also say POE2 gameplay surpasses POE1 already... also to say POE2 is one of the worst, feels incredibly disingenuous. I love POE1 and would still say it's the king of ARPG, but some of y'all are just so over the top in your zealousness for the first game... POE2 is easily in the top ATM and if I'm right going forward it'll surpass POE1.

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stkmro#2432 написал:

My personal opinion is that it would be better that all those bad things in poe1 do not come to poe2.

The bad things are:
1) loot explosions, the loot filling up the entire screen is so horrible that people have to install loot filter to make the loot less visible
2) those characters flying and zooming around 500 metres across the area and into the middle of 100 mobs, and press 1 button, and boom boom boom, everything on the screen gets destroyed

We don't need all these nonsense in poe2. poe2 and poe1 are designed to be different games.

I would like poe2 to go in a different direction and I am greatly enjoying playing poe2 now.

one of the main issues in poe2 right now is that loots are very bad and not exciting enough but you think loot explosions are bad, is it too hard for you to just use filter or what

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judment#5299 написал:

forgive me, but if you have played little poe 1 you can not say which is better, for me who am a veteran of poe 1, I say that poe 2 could be the best game of its kind, but at the moment it is one of the worst, and I will only add one thing, I am tired of these marketing tactics to get as many players as possible, if you want to make a different game from poe I appreciate it and I will try it, but do not call it poe2, and then not use any of the mechanics that made poe great (at least for me)

I get your point somewhat, as a long time fan of Tekken, their 2024 project is not just an absolute disgrace to the refined mechanics of the series, its a disgrace to fighting genre in general, so yes, I don't sequels using the same naming scheme and going against the original fanbase.

BUT

I really don't need to be an expert of POE1 or even the ARPG past in general to appreciate the efforts of evolution. I've seen vids of Diablo 2/3, POE1 and I've hard the misfortune of playing release Diablo 4 to near lvl 100 and I can't stress enough of how this "gear=win" culture is getting incredibly stale and will all crumble in due time from another publisher but GGG have stepped up and created the building blocks to something a lot more exciting than just gearing.

POE2 is clearly inspired by POE1 but they're trying their "darn-dest" at creating combat that is meaningful at that is enough healthy marketing in itself because you have millions of players to appeal to who enjoy competitive games like MOBA's and difficult solo challenge games like Dark Souls/Elden Ring/Wukong/Monster Hunter and these games/genre's are literally the best and getting the most from players who genuinely want an experience and hurdle toppling they can be proud of.

Actual crafting and atlus passive tree is robust and exciting. Also, you actually get loot and lots of currency from league mechanics. This game needs WAAAAY more currency, especially crafting currency.

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rhorains#6760 написал:

the way to improve endgame is to make it not the only part of the game people want to play.

it's like taking a lift to top of a mountain.. view is nice for a moment but there's no sense of accomplishment or true appreciation like having climbed that mountain to get there.

the ARPG outdated "skip campaign it's all wasted time unless I'm in a zone where shinies drop a lot" is broken old design doesn't work, kills player's sense of fun in a couple of weeks.

hardcore solves this problem.. rather than wait for league reset you will get reset by simply playing and engaging with increasingly difficult content. your character's power and ability matters with every step forward, can't be skipping content. now, loot is important wherever you are, you feel meaning with grinding in a level 40 area, not feeling like you need to get to level 70 area ASAP to find the best loot, because you would die if you went to level 70 area now..

how they can make softcore players feel the hardcore experience IDK. need to gatekeep progression behind difficulty, but they try that already and players say I hate this I want to skip it and go to maps.. so I'm not sure how to fix broken brain of these type players.

I am one of them.

I do not agree with your argument.
POE2 is balanced around Maps.

You do not get level 3 support gems in normal 1,2,3.
They drop more often in Cruel.

You do not get Jeweler's Orbs in Act 1. They have a higher chance to drop in Act 3 normal. Even then I only have 2 and I am doing Act 3 Cruel.

So again, content is gated behind Maps. You do not get the items with the stats you want in campaign. There is no point trying to sweat through Doryani or Geoner 10x for a chance to get them to drop something useful. Drop rates are fixed only in Maps where the mob density is much higher. Magic Find is a stupid stat. Trying to get gear with MF is more important than core resists.

Many of these they are fixing such as bad luck, less frustrating mechanics. But your response lacks the input for players who are 'unlucky'.

A good example would be Monster Hunter. You may need to hunt some jackass multiple times so that you can cut open his skull for that sweet rare "Gem". And then craft something so that you can kill some other guy who hits harder than the previous one.

This game lacks that confirmed drop rate. It is too random. And the lack of that actual random drop is even more appalling. Not knowing what killed you is worse. Trade is excruciating when people are expected to send 20 tells, before waiting for someone to reply.

Less gatekeeping please. Let us have fun.