Jonathan Was Wrong, Challenge is NOT Required to Have Fun

See Path of Exile 1 in its entirety as my evidence.

Especially note how it's absent of the "challenge" the POE2 developers think so highly of. And yet, it's still a lot of fun. I even enjoy going through POE1's Acts these days.

I can point to other examples, too. The entire Kirby series of games is critically acclaimed the world over, and enjoyed by a large variety of people of all ages. They're pretty easy games that are pretty fun to play. They're not really challenging, but they're still great games.

So challenge is not inherently required to make a good game, let alone a fun game. It just depends on what you want to put in it, and how you implement it.

I love the challenge, wish there was more of it in the endgame tho. IMO every other arpg is devoid of challenge, why are you not playing them? Why do you want this game to turn into them?

The whole being hard for the sake of being hard is holding the game back.

It's arbitrary, and the negatives that come along with it far outweigh the positives.

So much is gated behind logistical challenge alone that bogs that game down, and that is a direct result of one true design path of "this will be the hardest ARPG!"

There isn't really a challenge tho. It's just tedious, unrewarding and slow

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Dmo90#6022 написал:

There isn't really a challenge tho. It's just tedious, unrewarding and slow

I pretty much agree, I think their idea of challenge is kinda just miserable. I think that if they want to make a Souls game, an ARPG is not the right format for that. Especially they way it has been implemented at the moment.

If they want to make bosses fun, engaging challenges, they should lose the one-shot moves, and instead just have LOTS of fast, responsive attacks.

Then, they should increase our roll speed and the responsiveness of the animation so that we can be dodging, and attacking at the same time.

If we had the tools to actually dodge more responsively, they could design bosses to be faster, and more aggressive with their attacks, which would give them the impetus to make bosses more dangerous to us without resorting to one-shot slam attacks as the only means of killing tanky players.

Idk I feel like the movement in PoE2 is so much more responsive than the movement in PoE1. As for challenge goes, I found PoE1 to be pretty challenging, even moreso than I find PoE2, so I guess it just comes down to perspective.

POE1's movement is way more linear, so it's by definition more responsive, POE2 is just much smoother especially for users on controller or console.

I enjoyed the challenge in POE1 more personally, too...

Shaper is one of my favorites, he's not like that hard really, he just has some mechanics like dropping the orbs on the outside, dodging the slams and the laser. It's fun.

I think that is also another great example of like... it's fun, you have to pay attention to not die, so it's challenging, but it's fun.

Man... I am 33 and still today I remember how much I loved playing "Kirby's Dream Land" on the Game Boy. Interesting that you chose Kirby as an example.

You know what's the second game I love from that time and hold up as the first "Souls-like" game? Yep. FromSoftware did not create the first "Souls-like" game.
It was Jordan Mechner who created the first "Souls" game with "Prince of Persia" (1989).

Ah... what was the point of the thread? Right, "challenge".
Yes, you are right, PoE2 is not challenging, it's just tedious.

Maybe that’s what they’re going for. A tediously fun game - kind of like untangling your Christmas lights. It’s tedious while your doing it but man does it feel great when you’re finished.

"Challenge is NOT Required to Have Fun". Agreed 100%

Jonathan was saying in an interview that he needs to be able to enjoy the game. That tells me that he didn't enjoy playing POE 1 and is being a bit selfish in saying, I want! When its us that is funding this game, or players are playing a character the wrong way, what happened to creativity, to build your class however you like.