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I disagree.
Every time you make it easier to acquire good items you directly make the whole game easier.
Loot drops need to be buffed or else killing monsters feels unrewarding. That's something pretty much everyone agrees right now.
What happens when you buff loot drops considerably AND also give powerful crafting tools to the player?
The game gets extremely easy. There is nothing to "consider", no need to adapt/think or play well because you already overpower most enemies and bosses because you can cover any weakness with a bit of crafting.
And it won't stop there. You know that once GGG implements this kind of crafting, people will cry to make it easier and cheaper to craft. To a point that you can play blindfolded until you reach red maps...
Buffing loot drops is much more interesting, because it feels more natural than slamming +30% X resist on an item. I don't think you can do both(buff drops and implement deterministic crafting)
I think crafting can only really work in SSF mode.
You're free to disagree, but if the result of ignoring player feedback is a steady decline in active players, that becomes a business problem, not just a design debate.
Nobody's asking for crafting to be braindead. We're asking for a reasonable path to progression that respects time investment. Systems like Harvest (before nerfs) offered a middle ground: partial control with effort required.
Buffing loot drops and offering semi-deterministic crafting isn’t mutually exclusive, if done right, it leads to more build diversity, better retention, and less frustration. It's not about making the game easy, it's about making it worth playing longer.
I understand.
That's why I said that deterministic crafting can exist, if it is minimal.
If they buff the loot drops considerably it indicates that they do listen to feedback, after all they can't just listen to each and every feedback they receive.
And that's just my opinion: Killing mobs should be the top way to get cool items. Not crafting or trading.
But since the game IS based around trading and there's not much I can do, I would prefer better loot drops instead of crafting.
I don't see how:
1. Good loot
2. Good crafting
3. Trade
How can these exist togheter without making the game incredibly easy?
It seems to me that you have to pick 2 of these. You can't have all three.
We’re actually not that far off in our thinking. I totally get your point, if you have strong loot, strong crafting, and trading all maxed out, it risks trivializing the game. But I think the key lies in balance and intention behind each system.
Crafting doesn’t have to be ultra-deterministic or super powerful, just reliable enough to help smooth out the RNG when loot or trade doesn’t fill in the gaps. Harvest (pre-nerf) hit that sweet spot for many: it required effort, had limits, but offered control. That doesn’t break the game, it just respects the player’s time.
And yeah, killing monsters should be the best way to get items, no argument there. But it sucks when you kill thousands and still feel forced to gamble crafts or flip trade tabs for something usable. That’s where a little more crafting control goes a long way, especially for SSF or casual players.
I don’t think it’s about picking 2 out of 3 (loot, craft, trade), it’s about ensuring each one complements the others without invalidating them. That middle ground is tricky, but not impossible.
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СообщениеTwelten#196120 апр. 2025 г., 23:13:46
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PoE1 crafting was also gambling but you have targeted tools so you can limit your rng to specific mods and there is much more control in general, PoE2 lack any kind of control you have targeted tools like omens and greater essences but no control at all beside just getting more omens until you beat the rng, one of the issue is that they want ground loot to matter which goes against the idea of deterministic crafting.
And your point is what exactly? POE1 is what now, 12 years old? POE1 is OBSOLETE. The fact that it was that way there means nothing regarding how it can be here.
Same goes for in game auction house.
These are obsolete 90s game design desitions. Other games like last epoch keep evolving.
POE2 seems content to be a visual upgrade and nothing more than that.
I get the frustration, but calling PoE1 "obsolete" ignores the fact that some of its systems, especially crafting, were the reason it had such strong long-term retention. Just because something is old doesn’t mean it’s outdated if it works.
PoE2 trying to reinvent everything without keeping what was already working well feels like change for the sake of change. Sure, it's fine to evolve systems, but evolution should bring clarity and engagement, not remove player agency and call it “VISION”.
Holding too tightly to a “VISION” can end up being the very thing that brings a game down. A clear direction is important, sure, but ignoring player feedback in favor of that vision can alienate the very people keeping the game alive.
At the end of the day, it’s the playerbase that sustains the game, through engagement, content creation, feedback, and yes, financial support. That’s something GGG really needs to recognize. A vision means nothing if no one's left to experience it.
Games like Last Epoch are evolving, yeah, but they’re evolving in response to player feedback, not by stubbornly sticking to ideas that feel punishing or regressive. A game can be challenging and respectful of the player's time. That’s the sweet spot GGG needs to find again.
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СообщениеTwelten#196120 апр. 2025 г., 23:20:49
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HOLY COW this is a bad take post.
you're lucky to even have crafting in an ARPG considering it goes against the point of the game.
No it doesn't, it expands upon the point of the game
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HOLY COW this is a bad take post.
you're lucky to even have crafting in an ARPG considering it goes against the point of the game.
No it doesn't, it expands upon the point of the game
"You're lucky to even have crafting in an ARPG" is such a tired take, man. Crafting isn’t some forbidden mechanic in the genre, it’s evolved with the genre. Other ARPG are proving you can have crafting systems that give players some level of control without breaking the core ARPG loop.
The whole point of my post isn’t to remove RNG. It’s to give players tools that respect their time and investment. RNG can still exist, but it shouldn’t be the only thing between you and a usable item. You can still keep loot meaningful and allow for a crafting system that feels like progression instead of just throwing coins into a cursed slot machine.
If anything, clinging to this idea that “ARPGs = pure RNG” is more harmful to the genre than crafting ever could be.
Последняя редакция: Twelten#1961. Время: 20 апр. 2025 г., 23:27:04
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СообщениеTwelten#196120 апр. 2025 г., 23:26:28
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First Input:
Let’s be real here:
Right now, "crafting" in PoE2 is like shaking a magic 8-ball and praying for "Your item will be OP." It's not crafting. It's not even close. It's gambling in a robe, holding a Chaos Orb like a deck of cursed Uno cards.
if we get a decent weapon, we only have a few tools to improve it (ill mention some of them): Exalted, Chaos, and Divine. Here's how they work, and here's the problem:
1. Exalted Orb:
You want to add a mod. This is fine, it's RNG, yes, but it doesn't break the item. You’re just adding a new prefix or suffix. No issue here.
2. Chaos Orb:
You want to change something. But this is where the system becomes completely random. It rerolls everything, the prefix, suffix, and even the stat. You could go from something useful like Physical Damage to “Light Radius”.
At this point, it's not crafting,it’s gambling.
A better idea: Chaos should let us pick the prefix or suffix we want to reroll, not throw the whole item into a dice cup.
3. Divine Orb:
You want to adjust numbers, but it randomly picks which mod to reroll. Again, not crafting. This is rolling dice on top of your existing dice rolls.
Better approach: Let us choose which stat we want to reroll. Simple. Logical. Actually useful.
Note:
Then again its still gambling with better approach, atleast closer to crafting, we have some control over it.
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Second Input:
So what should crafting actually look like?
Here’s a proper system that would make more sense and feel like actual progression, we the player have control over it, and we as a player know it as crafting:
-Transmutation Orb : Add a random prefix
-Augmentation Orb : Add a random suffix
-Alchemist Orb : Add 4 random suffix/prefix
-Regal Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 1–3
-Exalted Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 4–6
-Chaos Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 7–8
-Divine Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 9–10
-Vaal Orb : The only true gamble: can change suffix/prefix, can change tiers, break or exceed into T11–T12
Note:
If you call something "crafting," it should mean player-controlled improvement, not slot-machine results.
The current system doesn't let us craft. It lets us hope.
That’s why people don’t engage deeply with crafting unless they’re ready to burn through stacks of currency just to MAYBE land one usable mod.
Crafting should feel like building a weapon, not praying over it.
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Update: I divided the 2 section
First Input: Some sort of control over crafting. not a complete RNG Fest.
Second Input: Full control over crafting
Note:
The core point of this post is simple: players should either have some meaningful control or full control over crafting. That's the heart of it.
It’s about respecting player time. Not everyone enjoys gambling on every upgrade attempt. Some like it, some don’t. A good system can serve both.
RNG loots is called Loot Boxes and several countries are passing laws or in the process of passing laws that draw money out of your pocket in hidden ways to play the game. As evidenced by the numerous bot 3rd party sites that never get banned from spamming chat, the game, or posting on the forums or trade forum.
Brewskie
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СообщениеBrewskiesBrew#074820 апр. 2025 г., 23:28:43На испытательном сроке
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First Input:
Let’s be real here:
Right now, "crafting" in PoE2 is like shaking a magic 8-ball and praying for "Your item will be OP." It's not crafting. It's not even close. It's gambling in a robe, holding a Chaos Orb like a deck of cursed Uno cards.
if we get a decent weapon, we only have a few tools to improve it (ill mention some of them): Exalted, Chaos, and Divine. Here's how they work, and here's the problem:
1. Exalted Orb:
You want to add a mod. This is fine, it's RNG, yes, but it doesn't break the item. You’re just adding a new prefix or suffix. No issue here.
2. Chaos Orb:
You want to change something. But this is where the system becomes completely random. It rerolls everything, the prefix, suffix, and even the stat. You could go from something useful like Physical Damage to “Light Radius”.
At this point, it's not crafting,it’s gambling.
A better idea: Chaos should let us pick the prefix or suffix we want to reroll, not throw the whole item into a dice cup.
3. Divine Orb:
You want to adjust numbers, but it randomly picks which mod to reroll. Again, not crafting. This is rolling dice on top of your existing dice rolls.
Better approach: Let us choose which stat we want to reroll. Simple. Logical. Actually useful.
Note:
Then again its still gambling with better approach, atleast closer to crafting, we have some control over it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second Input:
So what should crafting actually look like?
Here’s a proper system that would make more sense and feel like actual progression, we the player have control over it, and we as a player know it as crafting:
-Transmutation Orb : Add a random prefix
-Augmentation Orb : Add a random suffix
-Alchemist Orb : Add 4 random suffix/prefix
-Regal Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 1–3
-Exalted Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 4–6
-Chaos Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 7–8
-Divine Orb : Upgrade one affix to Tier 9–10
-Vaal Orb : The only true gamble: can change suffix/prefix, can change tiers, break or exceed into T11–T12
Note:
If you call something "crafting," it should mean player-controlled improvement, not slot-machine results.
The current system doesn't let us craft. It lets us hope.
That’s why people don’t engage deeply with crafting unless they’re ready to burn through stacks of currency just to MAYBE land one usable mod.
Crafting should feel like building a weapon, not praying over it.
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Update: I divided the 2 section
First Input: Some sort of control over crafting. not a complete RNG Fest.
Second Input: Full control over crafting
Note:
The core point of this post is simple: players should either have some meaningful control or full control over crafting. That's the heart of it.
It’s about respecting player time. Not everyone enjoys gambling on every upgrade attempt. Some like it, some don’t. A good system can serve both.
RNG loots is called Loot Boxes and several countries are passing laws or in the process of passing laws that draw money out of your pocket in hidden ways to play the game. As evidenced by the numerous bot 3rd party sites that never get banned from spamming chat, the game, or posting on the forums or trade forum.
I get where you’re coming from with the loot box comparison, but that’s not really what this post is about.
This isn’t about monetization or shady RNG cash-grabs. It’s about the core gameplay loop, the system we use to improve our gear in-game with the currency we earn by playing. I’m not asking for less RNG in loot drops. I’m asking for better, player-driven tools to refine the gear we already find.
The entire point of this post is that the current system feels like RNG stacked on top of RNG, even when we’re supposed to be “crafting.” That kind of loop can be exhausting for players who want to interact with item building, not just roll dice and pray.
So yeah, it’s not about loot boxes or external monetization. It’s about respecting player time within the actual gameplay.
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СообщениеTwelten#196120 апр. 2025 г., 23:31:52
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were just saying the same thing, in a different way.
Brewskie
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СообщениеBrewskiesBrew#074820 апр. 2025 г., 23:42:40На испытательном сроке
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Add an affix that is craftable. Make it so you can't craft on whites at all. Getting a six craftable drop would be like a six link in path 1.
Need deterministic crafting, it makes end game gear progression slow and boring without it. I'm holding out on two or three affixes that never drop to upgrade my gear so I never upgrade gear.
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СообщениеN1ghtwing#997020 апр. 2025 г., 23:58:33
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Like they remove all these poe1 systems cause they're "not good enough" but then they just replace them with something worse or not at all
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СообщениеDmo90#602221 апр. 2025 г., 00:12:48
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Like they remove all these poe1 systems cause they're "not good enough" but then they just replace them with something worse or not at all
GGG should have thought of that before calling the game POE 2. Its everthing POE 1 has with different classes is all. The core of the game has not changed, nor the trade, nor the crafting, nor the MTX .
Their vision of they want different, is nothing but the same ol crap from poe1 .
Brewskie
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СообщениеBrewskiesBrew#074821 апр. 2025 г., 00:16:16На испытательном сроке
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