CRAFTING SHOULD NOT BE RNG, OTHERWISE IT'S NOT CRAFTING

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

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Naztrey#9177 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I disagree.

Every time you make it easier to acquire good items you directly make the whole game easier.

Loot drops need to be buffed or else killing monsters feels unrewarding. That's something pretty much everyone agrees right now.

What happens when you buff loot drops considerably AND also give powerful crafting tools for the player?

The game gets extremely easy. There is nothing to "consider", no need to adapt/think or play well because you already overpower most enemies and bosses.

Buffing loot drops is much more interesting, because it feels more natural than slamming +30% X resist on an item.

I think crafting can only really work in SSF mode.

play some MMORPG with good crafting system, and you'll see crafting does by no mean have to make the game more easy.

in some instances, it even can go to the opposite extreme. having dedicated "professions" that are highly sought after in guilds and such.

crafting is no bad thing, it doesn't make stuff more easy, and it doesn't allow for faster progression. this all comes down to how it is implemented, how the droprates are adjusted and more.

it is a lot more complex than you make it out to be :-)

95% of MMORPGs are piss easy and can be played blinfolded, unless you reach the high endgame.

Your HP bar barely moves even when taking damage from enemies while standing still, so I don't think it compares to PoE1 and 2

OFC the crafting system there doesn't create any problems, because it isn't even needed unless you reach the peak of endgame.

Most MMORPGs nowadays are trash because only endgame is relevant and everything else will only pose some threat if you afk for like 20 seconds

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I disagree.

Every time you make it easier to acquire good items you directly make the whole game easier.

Loot drops need to be buffed or else killing monsters feels unrewarding. That's something pretty much everyone agrees right now.

What happens when you buff loot drops considerably AND also give powerful crafting tools to the player?

The game gets extremely easy. There is nothing to "consider", no need to adapt/think or play well because you already overpower most enemies and bosses because you can cover any weakness with a bit of crafting.

And it won't stop there. You know that once GGG implements this kind of crafting, people will cry to make it easier and cheaper to craft. To a point that you can play blindfolded until you reach red maps...

Buffing loot drops is much more interesting, because it feels more natural than slamming +30% X resist on an item. I don't think you can do both(buff drops and implement deterministic crafting)

I think crafting can only really work in SSF mode.

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sdiv#7929 написал:

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masskillers#5403 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I don't understand you last two points. Crafting as requested in this post has never really been implemented in PoE. And I think it never will since it would affect trade tremendously.

Oh no, how will trade ever recover?

Trade is done because crafting is shite. I for one would avoid trade entirely if I could craft my own items so boohoo, crafted gear would replace trading for gear.

This is the essence of the issue. You’re arguing with people who like playing the market more than playing the game. They see crafting as a threat to their control of the trade system. GGG has a decision to make about POE 2: Will it be a game or will it be a market? We know what they chose for POE 1. I expect they’ll make the same decision for POE 2.

I have no interest playing a market.

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Twelten#1961 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I disagree.

Every time you make it easier to acquire good items you directly make the whole game easier.

Loot drops need to be buffed or else killing monsters feels unrewarding. That's something pretty much everyone agrees right now.

What happens when you buff loot drops considerably AND also give powerful crafting tools to the player?

The game gets extremely easy. There is nothing to "consider", no need to adapt/think or play well because you already overpower most enemies and bosses because you can cover any weakness with a bit of crafting.

And it won't stop there. You know that once GGG implements this kind of crafting, people will cry to make it easier and cheaper to craft. To a point that you can play blindfolded until you reach red maps...

Buffing loot drops is much more interesting, because it feels more natural than slamming +30% X resist on an item. I don't think you can do both(buff drops and implement deterministic crafting)

I think crafting can only really work in SSF mode.

You're free to disagree, but if the result of ignoring player feedback is a steady decline in active players, that becomes a business problem, not just a design debate.

Nobody's asking for crafting to be braindead. We're asking for a reasonable path to progression that respects time investment. Systems like Harvest (before nerfs) offered a middle ground: partial control with effort required.

Buffing loot drops and offering semi-deterministic crafting isn’t mutually exclusive, if done right, it leads to more build diversity, better retention, and less frustration. It's not about making the game easy, it's about making it worth playing longer.

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I don't see how:

1. Good loot
2. Good crafting
3. Trade

How can these exist togheter without making the game incredibly easy?

It seems to me that you have to pick 2 of these. You can't have all three.

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I never play the market nor do I control the trade system.

I farm currency and buy upgrades when I hit a wall that is very hard to overcome and that's pretty much the extent of what I do.

I would prefer 100x that they would strongly buff loot from killing mobs(AKA playing the game) than to implement some artifical crafting.

That way we would be less dependant on artificial predefined systems like trading and crafting and killing mobs would feel good an rewarding.

It is that simple, no need to jump to conclusions based on your imagination.

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sdiv#7929 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I never play the market nor do I control the trade system.

I farm currency and buy upgrades when I hit a wall that is very hard to overcome and that's pretty much the extent of what I do.

I would prefer 100x that they would strongly buff loot from killing mobs(AKA playing the game) than to implement some artifical crafting.

That way we would be less dependant on artificial predefined systems like trading and crafting and killing mobs would feel good an rewarding.

It is that simple, no need to jump to conclusions based on your imagination.

No, you play the forums.

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Naztrey#9177 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I don't see how:

1. Good loot
2. Good crafting
3. Trade

How can these exist togheter without making the game incredibly easy?

It seems to me that you have to pick 2 of these. You can't have all three.

remove point 1, since point 2 can be implemented as a means of countering bad rng.

gl hf!

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Naztrey#9177 написал:

some thoughts:

good loot would devalue the casino feeling some folks like in arpgs. when every drop is "good", is it really good overall? it would just be "yet another drop".

having typical loot, but a crafting system to help negate too many unlucky rolls in a row (i.e. being progress locked due to bad rng), wouldn't take away the value of the occasional good rng. depending on how it is implemented, even the contrary. the "lucky roll" might mean so you can safe your mats for later/something else or that.

it really depends on the implementation of the crafting system, the droprates, the difficulty scaling of the game itself as a whole, and more!