CRAFTING SHOULD NOT BE RNG, OTHERWISE IT'S NOT CRAFTING

"

Twelten#1961 написал:

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

Repeat after me:

Random ≠ Fun. Random ≠ Crafting.

Nobody’s asking to hand-pick perfect gear like it’s a Skyrim mod screen. What people want is a semblance of control. If I spend 50 chaos trying to fix one stat on my helmet and end up light radius, that’s not exciting, it’s exhausting.

Looting can still be random. Drops can be random. But crafting should let me push something closer to what I want, not send it through a slot machine every time. If randomness is the only design pillar left, then PoE2 is less of a game and more of a gacha with extra steps.

Then you should have phrased your post better, because when I read it I thought you wanted an "item editor".

Truth is that in these kinds of games, crafting has to be minimal.
The purpose is to kill mobs to find good items once in a while.

Having patience when you find nothing is part of the game.

But PoE is based on trade which means you have to trade if you want to get your gear faster.

I'm not defending the loot drops or usefulness of chaos/exalt/divine orbs.

I just think there should never be a "pay 10 chaos orbs to get 30% fire resist" thing.

In order to get what you want this game would have to NOT be based around trade.

You'll only get this in games like Grim Dawn.

"

Imezruez2#3129 написал:

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

if you don't like it don't USE it but don't penalize the rest of us that aren't pain junkies.

Exactly! If you love rolling the dice and embracing the chaos, that's awesome, go for it. But some of us prefer crafting to feel like, you know, crafting. Let us have systems with more control, and you can keep your RNG roulette, slam a Vaal Orb on your item every time you blink for all I care. Everyone wins, and no one has to be a pain junkie unless they really want to!

"

Twelten#1961 написал:

"

Imezruez2#3129 написал:

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

if you don't like it don't USE it but don't penalize the rest of us that aren't pain junkies.

Exactly! If you love rolling the dice and embracing the chaos, that's awesome, go for it. But some of us prefer crafting to feel like, you know, crafting. Let us have systems with more control, and you can keep your RNG roulette, slam a Vaal Orb on your item every time you blink for all I care. Everyone wins, and no one has to be a pain junkie unless they really want to!

Good and "not random" crafting simply cannot coexist with randomness of farming, unless the crafting is minimal.

Either you get the best items and upgrades by killing mobs and farming areas and Bosses or you just spend gold and craft good items.

You don't want to craft useless items, do you?

Items that are useful should be farmed, ideally.

But since PoE is based around trade, you have to farm to find something worth trading for.

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

"

Twelten#1961 написал:

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

Repeat after me:

Random ≠ Fun. Random ≠ Crafting.

Nobody’s asking to hand-pick perfect gear like it’s a Skyrim mod screen. What people want is a semblance of control. If I spend 50 chaos trying to fix one stat on my helmet and end up light radius, that’s not exciting, it’s exhausting.

Looting can still be random. Drops can be random. But crafting should let me push something closer to what I want, not send it through a slot machine every time. If randomness is the only design pillar left, then PoE2 is less of a game and more of a gacha with extra steps.

Then you should have phrased your post better, because when I read it I thought you wanted an "item editor".

Truth is that in these kinds of games, crafting has to be minimal.
The purpose is to kill mobs to find good items once in a while.

Having patience when you find nothing is part of the game.

But PoE is based on trade which means you have to trade if you want to get your gear faster.

I'm not defending the loot drops or usefulness of chaos/exalt/divine orbs.

I just think there should never be a "pay 10 chaos orbs to get 30% fire resist" thing.

In order to get what you want this game would have to NOT be based around trade.

You'll only get this in games like Grim Dawn.

There are two options in my post: it's either some sort of control or, you know . . actual crafting. There’s no other definition of crafting. What you want isn’t crafting, it’s gambling. Call it what it is. And if that's your thing, cool-just don’t pretend it's some universal standard for how ARPGs should be.

But if things keep going this way, while other ARPGs are moving toward more player agency and control... what kind of business decision is that? You're handing your competition the winning hand.

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Good and "not random" crafting simply cannot coexist with randomness of farming, unless the crafting is minimal.

Either you get the best items and upgrades by killing mobs and farming areas and Bosses or you just spend gold and craft good items.

You don't want to craft useless items, do you?

Items that are useful should be farmed, ideally.

But since PoE is based around trade, you have to farm to find something worth trading for.

Here’s the thing: "good crafting" doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to craft the perfect item every time, and it doesn't need to remove the excitement of farming. Crafting can enhance the process of refining what you already have, not replace it. It should feel like an art, not a gamble.

And no, we don't want to craft useless items, but that doesn't mean we should be locked out of having some control over what we're crafting. Even in a trade-based economy like PoE’s, it doesn’t mean crafting has to be a mess. You can still find great items through farming and trading while having systems that let players actively shape their gear, not just roll the dice.

If we're only meant to "farm" everything, then crafting's just a glorified version of roulette and that’s where the frustration kicks in.

"

Twelten#1961 написал:

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

"

Twelten#1961 написал:

Repeat after me:

Random ≠ Fun. Random ≠ Crafting.

Nobody’s asking to hand-pick perfect gear like it’s a Skyrim mod screen. What people want is a semblance of control. If I spend 50 chaos trying to fix one stat on my helmet and end up light radius, that’s not exciting, it’s exhausting.

Looting can still be random. Drops can be random. But crafting should let me push something closer to what I want, not send it through a slot machine every time. If randomness is the only design pillar left, then PoE2 is less of a game and more of a gacha with extra steps.

Then you should have phrased your post better, because when I read it I thought you wanted an "item editor".

Truth is that in these kinds of games, crafting has to be minimal.
The purpose is to kill mobs to find good items once in a while.

Having patience when you find nothing is part of the game.

But PoE is based on trade which means you have to trade if you want to get your gear faster.

I'm not defending the loot drops or usefulness of chaos/exalt/divine orbs.

I just think there should never be a "pay 10 chaos orbs to get 30% fire resist" thing.

In order to get what you want this game would have to NOT be based around trade.

You'll only get this in games like Grim Dawn.

There are two options in my post: it's either some sort of control or, you know . . actual crafting. There’s no other definition of crafting. What you want isn’t crafting, it’s gambling. Call it what it is. And if that's your thing, cool-just don’t pretend it's some universal standard for how ARPGs should be.

But if things keep going this way, while other ARPGs are moving toward more player agency and control... what kind of business decision is that? You're handing your competition the winning hand.

I'm not pretending anything. It is how every ARPG always was created ever.

Every single "diablo 2 clone" is a game where 95% of good items comes from killing monsters or getting currency to trade by killing monsters.

You want to change the core of the system.

Part of playing ARPGs is adapting when you DON'T find what you want.

Other sweet part is when you get lucky and FIND what you want and enjoy feeling powerful for a few levels.

Crafting either has to be minimal or not even exist in games like Grim Dawn, Last Epoch and PoE

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

Ew no

And tbh man... you sort of already have that control in the form of runes and sockets.

There is your crafting.

You can even add sockets to items that don't have them.

It is just not called crafting.

You can say that crafting in PoE should have never been called "crafting", and yeah... that's true. It is not crafting.

I've run two characters in DOFH, one to 75(map tier 6) an another to 35 Act 3

I've probably had around 50 exalts worth of resources. Exalts and Chaos orbs.

The biggest problem is that that that loot drops are so poor, the only way to get better gear is to buy it through the market.

Its currently leaving me very frustrated and it's detracting from the enjoyment of playing.

I started a second character as I'd go 4 or 5 maps without seeing an exalted drop or any form of upgrade.

Why does the market feature so heavily in this game. It seems that I run maps just to be able to see what I can buy next.

The balance seems wrong. We should be swimming in loot and crafting materials. What's the point otherwise

"

masskillers#5403 написал:

"

Gordyne#2944 написал:

Repeat after me:

Crafting as you see in other games has no place in a looting game.

Imagine if you could just use gold in Diablo 2 to craft any item you want...

Real crafting just has absolutely no place in games like PoE and would be a very, very, very, very stupid idea to implement such a thing.

"Crafting" in ARPGs was always about using certain items in combination to ROLL something that has more chance to be what you want.

Randomness when getting items is the CORE of ARPGs

Ew no

Lol

People are really spoiled nowadays. If you let them have their way they would want a mageblood as a reward for killing Hillock.